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Jeremy Clarkson reviews BMW 1 Series
After all that flying vehicles of lately, lets get that forum back down to earth for a bit :D
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Clarkson would choose a Golf over the 1 series? The man has gone off his rocker.
I don't normally like new BMW cars, but I don't mind the 1 series, because it has the courage to be rear-wheel-drive in a market where everything conservatively remains front-drive, and because the styling isn't too bangled up. I also have no problem with modern diesel engines. A drive in a car with a modern BMW diesel inline-6 will leave you hard-pressed to know it is a diesel. Quote:
The BMW, a bit crook looking as it might be has the one feature that none of the others can match, unless they do a complete clean sheet redesign, and I believe they deserve credit for sticking to their drivers car ideals, rather than just taking the easy option of front-wheel-drive. But, that's my opinion anyhow. ;) |
There were, in essence, three body styles, five engines and a range of options, so the customer could indulge in a spot of pick’n’mix. - That's what I loved about BMW's that and the dual headlamps.
I've seen a BMW 1 series on the road, because there's a BMW headqaurters on my way to school, they truly are a horrible looking car and even our A3 Golf can fit me in the back with the front seat halfway forwards, and I can do it for a long trip too. |
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Chris: he's talking about the MK5, I mean, the TDi 3.0 has the DSG box, that means something, and the new GTi motor is going to be a 2.0T isn't it?
Maybe they should relese them as a 3 door as well, then they might get away with having no rear space. |
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I'd take a Golf in favour of a 1 series any day, and a Focus.. evan a Renault Kangoo is favourable to the awfull little Beemer.. :D. It has to be the ugliest thing to have rolled across the planet in a good while.. No doubt it drives well though.. Ok, OK,, i'll have the Beemer,, i just can't bring myself to agree with Clarkson.. :)
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Auto Motor und Sport TV will be comparing the 1er with its rivals in 25 minutes from when this post has been made.
See www.dw-world.de and look for the live video stream. (install Real Alternative if you need the plugins for real video streams). Also, they have the big Nardo speed-test on as well, and the funny VW Touareg W12. |
When are VW gonna start putting these wounderful motors like the W12 motor and the W8 and the TTV10TDi motor in sports cars? or at least in a model below what they normally come in as a hot light version, like mercedes benz, but lighter and awd?
Why not actually make the W12 concept car a relaity with a W12 and a twin turbo v10 diesel? that would be best. |
The Phaeton 4.2 is on sale now, or very soon, and the W12 will soon follow.
As far as I know, VW has given up on the W8, or at least that's what I heard. |
It's in the Passat though.
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Hmm, the AM&S test displayed graphically the handling advantages of the BMW. It's slalom course performance is amazing, and it stops much quicker too than all the others.
But somehow, the 118d got rated 4th. The Golf got first place, the Astra 3rd, and the Focus 2nd. Fair enough rating. The Focus these days is a world away from the old one. Interior quality is so much better than before. |
Erm, really chris, for what these cars are usually used for, dialy driving and breif extended trips, a golf or Astra is a good car for the job, you don't make any sacrifieces in speed etc, because really, when do you go touring in a little car unless it's a roadster.
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OOch, BMW got drilled!!.
I do feel a bit sorry for Bangle though, because he was probably told to "reinvent" BMW or something, because the man can design good cars (take the new 5-series for example). I don't think the 1-series is overly ugly, well in comparison to the rest of the range. But the poor ride, poor power and poor space factor is almost unforgiveable for a company like BMW. |
The old 318is only had 103kW (the wheezy 1.9 litre Z3 engine), but that didn't stop it from being a hugely popular car, or from being fitted with M3 loolalike bodykits and wheels. :)
The dead giveaway was the clattery 4 cylinder engine noise, instead of the frenetic inline-6 scream, and a few other telling little differences. |
Some of those 318's do look nice. I was even thinking about buying one though.
Probably then to have someone crash into it. :rolleyes: 1/5 stars? Yeah very funny. So in terms of safety, features, bad styling. What is it really? 3.5? |
1/5 is Jeremy being his usual biased self. If it had a Ferrari badge on it, it would be automatically be 5/5. ;)
I wouldn't say the 1er is perfect, but it is definately not a 1/5. You'd give it a 3.5 out of 5, or maybe 4. When it offers such brilliant handling performance and brakes, it deserves to be applauded for that. I also don't think it is too bad in the engine department. A 120i offers reasonable performance, with a quite efficient valvetronic engine, as does the diesel version. I suppose you could give other rivals a 1/5 for not matching the BMW's handling and braking? I believe the 1 series is a big breath of fresh air in a stale small car market too long dominated by the same old conservative front-drive hatch-backs. I'd say rivals are terrified of the BMW, and hoping desperately that it won't be successful, because if it is, it will force a huge revolution in small car design. Manufacturers will have to adopt rear-wheel-drive in response, and that would mean a total clean-sheet redesign of their current small car models - a costly and time consuming undertaking - especially for those makers with little experience in developing rear wheel driven cars. BMW's ad-campaign should do even more to push the fact that the 1 series is rear-wheel-driven, and really drive home the fact that it is something exclusive to BMW in the small car market at the moment. Rear wheel drive has the huge advantage of the front wheels only having to steer the car, and not propel it as well. A front drive car suffers the penalties of not only having to steer the car, but also make it move too. One of the plus points of 3 series models over the recent years, (E36, E46) has always been the handling prowess they offered. Even a base model 318i offered superb handling. The old E39 5 series had that tradition as well, while the E38 7 series was the sole drivers car in the large saloon market. It was the only one with taut suspension, firm steering, and sporty handling. In fact, all of its controls had the same precise, firm feel. Despite its mammoth size (mostly the daunting length to be honest), the old 750iL could be hustled along with impressive effect. You'd never try it with the rivals, because they'd just rock and roll about too much, or understeer, or various combinations of all three. Today the Quattroporte is the E38 7 series of its class, with handling prowess clearly a fair margin above its rivals capabilities. An A8 even despite complex 4wd, and advanced alluminium body/spaceframe construction can not hope to corner as quickly as the Quattroporte. It just won't do it. If 1 series, E38 7 series, and Quattroporte all have one thing in common, it is that they were designed with the keen driver in mind. |
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Nah, toyota and Honda want the cheapest way out, and they will stick with FWD, as will everyone else, because people actually like back seat space, compared to this which has none. Even MB witht he A class went fwd and in LWB form has mnore leg space then a LWB S class!
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What about those who like nice handling? I know a lot of people who don't like the fact that their small cars don't handle as well as they want.
And the space issue, at least in the back isn't a huge issue. Most small cars around 1 series size have the same amount of room in the back of them in real terms. Astras, Corollas, etc. You have to go to the mini-MPV's like Scénic to get greatly more room. I think rear-wheel-drive in small cars will make a come-back in the future. Wheelbases will be longer, and the small cars might end up being a little bit larger, but with short overhangs front and rear. As it is in the small car market now, everything is nearly the same, except for badges and shape. Same driving, different cover. :( Only BMW is brave enough to challenge the traditional ideas. But BMW has to do that, because BMW's have always traditionally been rear-wheel-drive. BMW's have also never offered the biggest interior in class, the old E39 5 series was more compact than its rivals inside, but it beat them by a mile when it came to handling. The front-drive A6 in comparison rocked and rolled about in a drunken fashion, while the slab-sided E-Class was strictly conservative in nearly all respects, but swifter than you'd expect, and with a surprisingly small turning circle. Both rear-drive models (Benz E280 and BMW 528i) both had far tidier handling than the A6. The A6's trait of lifting the inside rear wheel off the ground during cornering might make the driver look like a hero, but ultimately doesn't do the handling much good, with the body leaning hard on the outside front corner. Surprisingly, the 4wd A6 wasn't greatly better than the FWD one. I've noted a lot of interest in the BMW 1 series because it is rear-wheel-drive. |
I still don't think it will, we use our golf to carry 4 people, 5 at a stretch and it does it, there is plenty of backseat space, but I guess it's like with 4x4's and having a family of 6, the people in the very back seats get jibbed with tiny uncomfortable seats, BMW is used to donig that anyway.
I honestly don't know why you wouldn't just buy a GTi version of any of the euro cars, the new A5 GTi is meant to be as good as the original from what I've read and they handle really well and have good interior space in a 4 door form, I'm more concerned with the fact BMW is flogging it off as a 4 door, when the rear is useless, and really, when do you EVER get a chance in Victoria or NSW to legally go faster then 110km/h and be able to test it's excelent high speed cornering? never, so who really cares unless it's used as a racecar. If you want a cheap RWD sports car, get a MX5, it has good balance and handling and a low price and it's better looking then the 1 series and actually not meant to hold 4 people. When BMW make a 3 door hatch 1 series, then you can rant how good they are, but till then it has to be a whole package. They are going back to RWD in the mid class, but I really doubt that most companys will go to RWD in the small class, because the cost is more isn't it? hence why a Golf will be what? 10K cheaper then a BMW with the same features? |
It might be cheaper here (not in all countries though), but the Golf is still a Golf, and still front-wheel-drive. And BMW can murder the Golf with that, because rear-drive is the one thing the Golf doesn't have.
You can market that very effectively, because almost everyone likes sporty, fun to drive cars, and that is the one thing BMW is renowned for. :) You don't have to speed to enjoy those properties, of the front wheels only doing the steering, and the rear wheels propelling the car along. :) It's price competitive though: 120 2.0L Valvetronic: 24,300 euros Golf 2.0L FSI: 24,900 euros I suspect when the M version of the 1 series arrives, the rivals will be feeling the white-heat of BMW's rear-drive small car revolution. ;) To be honest, the 1 series is the only new BMW I consider really worth buying. The rest are too bangled up. And with the 1 series, you don't feel like you are the poor joe settling for the lowest end of the range. |
what about a little golf hatch called the R32? AWD with a 3.2 V6? And it's a wrx beater. And the fact the M will cost near base 5 series costs, yeah, cheap.
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I'd be supprised if the Corolla went back rwd. They'd run into the same packaging issues as JC brought up with the 1 series, and I doubt that's a sacrifice Toyota's willing to make for a economy sedan. They could do a seperate rwd Corolla coupe, but cheap coupes are very much hit and miss at the moment, the demise of the Prelude and soon demise of the Celica are evidence enough of that. |
Nissan Maxima doesn't need to be rear-wheel-drive. Just needs to be culled and replaced simply with the rear-wheel-drive Nissan Skyline 350 sedan and coupé imported direct from Japan.
That would require the Infiniti G35 to be culled (for obvious reasons). But that would make sense anyway, why does it need a special name just for one or two markets? If Nissan still requires the services of a front-drive snooze-mobile, take the not too bad Teana sold in Japan. |
no, i dont agree with that one chris, i already feel we got short changed when it comes to the skyine, its nothing more than the Fairlady's sexy sister, almost the same car.
they could have done us a favor by designing us a actual skyline that used a RB series motor, or at least by keeping the r34 around for another few years as an american only sale. i fell we deserve a RWD maxima, it could do battle with the 3 and 5 series sedans and Benz's c class- cheaper with comparable performance. the new FWD is a pretty good performer, even in its cursed front drive state. the Maxima is basically the US version of the Teana. ih8cops- good points, but i doubt that toyota would release a corrola coupe, for 1 reason-the Scion TC, the new little coupe they just came out with. they killed the celica line (rest in peace) to aim more buyers to the tc. it really isn't a bad car either. i feel with the release of the tc, they eventually would have pulled the plug on the celica anyways, just because people would go for the TC instead. i ve seen a few around, im sure we'll start seeing more of them by next summer. http://www.scion.com/ |
The sportiest car we will have once the Celica and Mr2 go, because they really aren't selling, will be a Camry!! Argh, they are ugly and the rear end reminds me of a Leyland P76, at least the leyland had a V8 and it is more attractive.
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The P76 was chalk and cheese.. A modest V8, and a 6 cylinder with a bad case of internal combustion asthma. :rolleyes:
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Lol, as I've said in the past, my grandad has had one since they came out, alright, it got a bad rap, but the lower models are rarely seen now, it's all the executives, which is equivilent to a premier at the time, which were the best ones other then the Targa Florio version which had parts from the crushed (scuse the pun) Force 7 project.
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It could be done, but even if they did, Nissan selling a premium car could undermine Infiniti. Infiniti, quite frankly, doesn't have much of anything compelling to sell besides their FM based cars. |
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Yeah, as a 911 Competitor, same as the GT-R a lot more expensive then what it was with a f1 based V10...
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Mmmmm, supra. Well, toyota have a 'supercar' in the making at the moment, there's spy pics of it testing round the Nurburgring. It looks quite supra-ish but it also looks a lot more supercar based (ie - NSX type car). I think it may get styling influence from the supra, but thats about it.
Toyota were fools to destroy the old (good) Mr-2 like they did...............tut tut, soft top. If they kept the vibe of the Mr-2 the same, then they would have sold more AND they wouldnt be cutting it from the production. |
The old MR2 wasn't bad, but it sure could bite the unwary, in rather a similar fashion to old mid-engine Ferraris. The Spider versions would have been better with the 140kW Celica engine in them.
And then you have the problem of the price of some being quite expensive in the first place, bring into the equation things like a second hand Lotus Elise. An Elise might have a very modest 88kW, but it only weighs 675kg - light enough to make the light MR2, MX5, S2000 and Porsche Boxster look seriously overweight. And the others haven't a hope in hell of matching the awesome cornering and braking performance of an Elise. The Elise doesn't just stop well once or twice, but on many repeated applications of the brakes. And if you don't like the Rover engine, you can always retro-fit a Honda Integra Type R engine (the old one). It apparently goes in quite well. Toyotas new supercar looks like it will be a mean machine. With any luck, it won't be much like the Supra. The Supra was more grand-tourer, and less sports-car. |
people still like to think they are and treat them so.
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B18 in a Elise? wow, they'll put those in anything. they are stong motors once fully built though, the most ive seen from a street legal one was 500+, in a Integra GSR. it was running mid 10's in full street trim (as in full interior). 450 + in a integra or civic will get you at least high 10's. on the toyota subject, i would like to see a sports car from them, not a supercar. they need something to do battle with the Evo, STi, GTO, Mustang GT, and the S2000. The last model MR2 (MR-S) was ok, but it ws slow. the handling ws there, and the clutchless 6 speed was a great feature, but its 0-60 times were close to that of a Civic Si. why pay that much just to have a great handling, slow drop top with no storage room? I dunno what direction there were heading with the celica. it went from a sports car to gas sipper, at least they kept the MRS RWD. they could have treated the celica with the same courtesy, since they changed the Corrola to FWD back in the early 90's I would like to see a new RWD I-6 Cressida back on the market, possibly on the Altezza/IS300 or the GS300/Aristo Chassis, because they use I-6's (the non turbo version of the Supra's 2JZ-GTE) |
The RB motor was outlawed because it wouldn't pass future emission laws, ditto for the old 13b rotary and the SR20 and the Supra motor as well, it's that simple, they need to make new motors simply because of emission laws and turbo's don't go that well with emissions.
Was that 10 second integra turbocharged? if it was N/A I'd be really impressed, but whacking on a turbo so you have no power till 5000 anyone can do. |
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Erm, the reason for such a large turbo is for making a huge amount of hp, because with a smaller one, you might have got less lag, but not as much hp, and people do it on purpose, like on those 1000hp skylines, do they REALLY have max boost at even 4 grand? doubt it. Even on V8's you need massive turbo's but at least with them they have a lot of waste gasses to be able to get decent driveability out of it.
The fastest FWD drag car is a Honda and runs a 9 second quarter! Street legal mini tubbed V8's run faster! |
Look at WRC. They are turbocharged, little 4 cylinder engines and have the torque of a large highly tuned V8 engine, at low engine speeds. Because they are restricted to about 300bhp, the manufacturers bump the torque output up to make up for it.
Compare the following two: Toyota Corolla WRC: 677Nm@3000rpm (2 litres, 4 cylinders, 1 turbocharger) V8 Supercar: approx. 580-620Nm@6000rpm (5 litres, 8 cylinders) The V8 Supercar doesn't matter much what brand it is, both Ford/Holden cars have similarly peaky power delivery, torque at 6000rpm, power at 7500rpm. WRC cars don't have turbo-lag issues either. |
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