In the current 3.5 version of nfspu, there are no tires listed at all for the 550a. Currently the 550a in my .SAV files does show slicks. If I uninstall them the slicks can't be re-installed. Is this a bug in the game? I've looked at the parts file and it includes normal, rain, and slicks for the 550a, but these don't show up in evolution mode parts available with version 3.5.
includes this 550a with slicks, if anyone is interested.
The sav file has 84 cars, 80 from evolution, 81st by winning gt1 at end of evolution, then the 3 factory driver cars.
JeffR
03-04-2002, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by JeffR
In the current 3.5 version of nfspu, there are no tires listed at all for the 550a. Currently the 550a in my .SAV files does show slicks. If I uninstall them the slicks can't be re-installed. Is this a bug in the game? I've looked at the parts file and it includes normal, rain, and slicks for the 550a, but these don't show up in evolution mode parts available with version 3.5.
I got this wrong...I have multiple save files that I have archived. In the save file where the 550a does have slicks, I can uninstall and re-install them. If I go into evolution mode with this save file, I can buy 550a normal tires, rain tires, or slicks.
If I use a save file that doesn't list any tires for the 550a, then I can't buy any from evolution mode, as they don't show up at all.
After some research into the file format, I've determined that a save file includes several sets of part numbers for each car. These part numbers reference the parts in the FEDATA\DATA\NFS5.PRT file, which contains part names and other info (how they affect cars I assume).
I compared the NFS5.PRT file with the one on my nfspu cd-rom and they are identical. So the 550 normal, rain, and slick tires have always been there, in all releases of NFSPU.
I then found that NFS5.CAR file has changed over time during updates, but is no longer used, since I can rename or delete this file. Apparently, version 3.5 only uses the files from the cd-rom. This should be fair, but I've read that version 3.2 was also released on cd-rom and don't know if the car data is the same.
It's NFS5.CAR that has the problem that no tires are listed for the 550. Apparently, an older update fixed this but I no longer have a "fixed" NFS5.CAR file, since I've since re-installed NFSPU. I didn't notice this until I re-did evolution mode.
To compound matters, a save file contains data transferred from NFS5.CAR at the moment you buy (or win) a car during evolution mode. Once the data is in a save file, it doesn't matter what the data is in a NFS5.CAR file. So an old save file will work no matter what as long as the parts exists in the NFS5.PRT file, which has never changed (it remains the same as on my cd-rom).
To top it off, because some have trouble with the online update process, they have been downloading a 3.5 patch in the form of a zip file that replaces the appropriate files to bring version up to 3.5. Unfortunately, this also uses a version of PORSCHE.EXE that includes the "no-cdrom" hack, which in turn means that the files on the hard drive are used instead of the files on the cd-rom.
I now have 3 versions of NFS5.CAR. The 3.0 version, a version from a previous update, and the one from the "no-cdrom" 3.5 version update. None of these NFS5.CAR files include the 550a tires, but they all differ in the areas where the downloaded car info for 928, 959, GT2, and GT3 are kept at. Since 2 of these are official ea released versions of NFS5.CAR, I'm not sure if these downloaded cars are really equal, even with "legal" updates.
Only an EA person with internal knowledge of these files will be able to answer this.
In the meantime, I assume that several people have downloaded my save file and now have access to the 550a slicks. I don't know what would be fair at this point. Either everyone should get the slicks (I could create utility to do this if I can figure out the file format better, or people could just download my save file and change car colors and setups as required).
DC_Targa
03-04-2002, 11:24 PM
Let's see... For whatever reason your .sav game happens to have a car with parts that don't appear to the rest of us. What should you do???
1.Realize it offers and unfair advantage.
2.Not use it again.
3.Share it with EVERYONE so the stats will become even more polluted! Such a concept!
Somehow that .sav file doesn't show your username or password. Gee, it must have been edited!
I don't really care if that file contains a bug or was hacked. It should be obvious that proliferating the stats pollution by making such a file available for download is not cool. Gee, maybe someone will use it to set a new World Record!
Sad...
DC_Targa
JeffR
03-05-2002, 03:28 AM
Originally posted by DC_Targa
Let's see... For whatever reason your .sav game happens to have a car with parts that don't appear to the rest of us. What should you do???
1.Realize it offers an unfair advantage.
2.Not use it again.
3.Share it with EVERYONE so the stats will become even more polluted! Such a concept!
Somehow that .sav file doesn't show your username or password. Gee, it must have been edited!
I don't really care if that file contains a bug or was hacked. It should be obvious that proliferating the stats pollution by making such a file available for download is not cool. Gee, maybe someone will use it to set a new World Record!
DC_Targa
1. Didn't realize it until I redid evolution and couldn't see any tires for the 550a. Didn't know it was unfair advantage since no one responded to my original post. Thought that many had this (and many may have this without my help), depending on when evolution was done versus the version of of nfspu at the time a player did evolution mode to accumulate cars.
2. After racing with the 550 tonight at Autobahn and seeing that I got a lead of +500 on the next racer I stopped and bailed before posting a too fast time.
3. Share with all - don't know how to address this. Some have already downloaded this save file. I can post a newer save file I have that doesn't have the 550 tires, but what about those that already have the file, and what about those that got the tires by simply doing evolution mode with the "correct" version of nfspu?
Whose bug is this anyway? I did more research on NFS5.CAR and NFS5.PRT files, and determined that every part in the NFS5.PRT file is used, except for the 550 tires, and the 550 is the only car that doesn't have any tires that you can purchase in evolution mode. A car with no tires; this seems like an EA bug to me. It's my belief that EA intended on allowing the 550a normal, rain, and/or slick tires to be used on the 550, but messed up the later and earlier versions of NFS5.CAR file. Note that if you look at a used 550 car, that tires do show up in the list of damaged parts (but they are never damaged), with any version of nfspu.
No account or password - this save file was based on an older save file that was never used for online racing. The only patch I did was to use a hex editor to change the name from Jeff to NFS5. I had planned on using Jeff as my online name, but it was taken, so I switched to JeffR for both nfspu and nfshs.
The bottom line is that I didn't create the 550 tires out of thin air. They have always been there, in the fedata\data\nfs5.prt file, including on my cd-rom. I'm fairly certain that all versions of nfspu have the tires in the NFS5.PRT file, as my legal, ea 3.5 update NFS5.PRT file is an exact match of the one on my cd-rom.
It may help to understand what's in the files. NFS5.CAR and .SAV files contain part numbers that reference parts in the NFS5.PRT file on your system. You can't just invent a part number unless that part already exists in the NFS5.PRT file. During evolution mode, some of the data for a car is transferred over to a .SAV file when you buy/win a car. Once this data is in a .SAV file, it doesn't matter what's in the NFS5.CAR file anymore, or if the NFS5.CAR file changes later on due to an update. Both the part numbers on each car and part numbers available for car are stored in a .SAV file. Again, note that these save file part numbers must reference existing parts in the NFS5.PRT file, which has never changed as far as I can tell, and the 550 tires have always been there.
My opinion is that it's a bug that the tires aren't available with the current 3.5 version of nfspu. Now the issue is how to deal with this since an unknown number of players may already have 550 tires, before I ever posted my save file for download.
What's amazing to me is that cheating is incredibly easy with nfshs (VIV editor), but very few cheat, and fewer still seem to worry about it. There's no online sever check for cheats anymore with nfshs, and it hasn't been a big issue. Most players know who the really fast racers are and who the probable cheaters are.
I was suprised at the negative reaction to this discovery for nfspu.
Many weird things have been found in nfshs, like the wiggle launch, or skipping 2nd gear in the Mercedes CLK for better launches and all have been willing to share these game "secrets".
Some of the fastest racers in NFSPU, are willing to share setup info and will send replays if asked.
I was considering creating a replay info utility similar to that in nfshs, that shows all players setups, but now I'm probably not going to do this since some consider this cheating (to view others setups), even though the game has stored all this info in a replay file, since NFS3, and there are utilities like this already for nfshs.
MATT
03-05-2002, 12:54 PM
And another racer gets added to Targa's long personal list of people he won't race... Welcome to the club, Jeff :)
MATT
03-05-2002, 01:23 PM
oops, hit the wrong button and deleted this whole great post I had going here.. I'll try again...
Jeff, you apparently didn't read one of my earlier replies to you in an older thread. I said that we already have a program that can display the setups of everyone in a pit. The program's primary objective is to detect a couple types of hacks (sim swapping and "spec file" swapping, which allows you to use the parts of one car on another car, if I'm not mistaken... don't quote me on that, though.) It's called Dirty Harry. It started with an idea I had about hacks and that this info is stored in replay files (sim files and such... ). Strobe did the programming for it and Dennis (DC_Targa) contributed a lot by matching up all the cars with their respective files (CRP (body), SIM (performance) and "spec"). A later development also included the displaying of setups.
We humans are prone to make mistakes now and then. But the world according to Dennis is that you make no mistakes otherwise you don't get the privelidge of racing him. Ok, I got a second chance but screwed that up with another err in judgement several months later. Now whenever Dennis sees me, he makes a scramble to get to a place I'm not as fast as he can. My crimes are racing under a different name (for some very twisted reasons I might explain later... I don't do this anymore after I apologized and made a promise not to do it again) and racing with a different CRP than the normal (not performance enhancing, just something I found entertaining).
Dennis is a purist. If you obtained something from outside the parameters of the game, he considers you to be dishonest and the likliness of him willingly racing you goes way down. Simple things like name changing for switching clans even (although he wasn't always like this, I think I contributed to him being so strict on these things... heh). Sometimes I could swear this game is a religion to him he's so strict on these things. They are great principles and all, but sometimes I think it goes a bit too far. Name changing is not a crime (especially if you're only switching clans or something), but he views it as such (or at least so it seems). You got just a small taste of that in his reply to this thread.
Dennis; we know you were brought up under great principles, but some of us may not have been so lucky. We are prone to mistakes, and when we realize the bad we've done, we regret them (or at least I do). It's time you realize that this is just a game and the seriousness in which you take things is amazing. I don't think I've ever seen anyone as strict as you in the rules of the online world. While it's great you like to keep such honest and good principles, it's a bit outlandish of you to look down upon and refuse to race the people who do make mistakes and then later apologize and regret their wrongdoing(s). I can understand why you wouldn't want to play with an unremorseful soul, but what about us who don't mean any harm and then genuinely feel bad about it and apologize and make a promise not to do it again? (and keep those promises, I might add).
DC_Targa
03-05-2002, 02:16 PM
I have always appreciated seeing Matt help others with how to get the game running on Win 2K and such. I am sure those that needed the help are grateful as well, even if they don't post as much thanks as they could.
[TM]Matt did appear to keep his promise regarding multiple personas. Not so sure about [SK]Matt... ;)
BTW, my personal list is quite short, unlike the DR ban list. So it seems you are wrong. Too bad you keep trying to justify your indiscretions such as swapping .crp files. Also too bad you never acknowledged the fact that a Spyder skin is much narrower than the GT1 so it does offer an advantage on certain tracks. Not to mention the file editor you referred to that allows people to hack their savegame, edit .sims and all. Dare I mention your posts regarding a program to remove the copy protection from PU (and I'm not referring to the no CD hack)?
I don't take PU very seriously. It is just a game, just entertainment. I don't spend hours drilling and drilling to try and set records. Heaven knows I am still using my old Thrustmaster wheel, LOL!!! And you probably realize it is not a matter of money. TSW's are cheap compared to reality. You have an idea what my TR4A autocross tires and wheels cost? Why spend money runnning a 37 year old car that can never be competitive against new cars? Well, "Fun" and "Fair" come well ahead of "Fast". It too is just entertainment.
I don't expect eveyone to think like I do. The world would be pretty darn boring if they did. However, I don't deserve to be attacked by those that choose to follow a different path.
Enough said,
DC_Targa
MATT
03-05-2002, 04:05 PM
While I wasn't thinking about swapping a CRP as performance enhancing originally, yes it can help a little bit here and there I think. But I have stopped using that as well (only used it for like 2 hours.. heh).
If NFBS didn't have to start over, you'd see that my promise to not change names also stated "unless a clan change or name change comes about" [SK]Matt is clean as well :)
Removing the copy protection allows you to use a burn copy of the game. Purely intended for backup purposes only, I do not promote illegal distribution of software. I just thought some people would like to know that there is a way to backup their CDs (and I know this is a legitimate concern. There have been several posts by some well-respected members here who have wanted to make such copies for backup purposes... hence me putting a disclaimer at the top of those posts warning that it is only for backup purposes and such and it shouldn't be used as a way to illegally copying the game, and if you don't agree to the terms, you can NOT go forward. Doing so would be in violation of the law, but they can still do it and get away with it quite easily, unfortunately, but I thought the good would outweigh the bad. Most people that were interested in it were only interested in backups for themselves and not illegal distributions.. but I'm sure there have been others who have had other intentions, but what can you do?)
Likewise, I don't deserve to be attacked for taking a different path. I have taken plenty of heat for doing so as well and now that I know what the general rules everyone agrees to (without my knowledge originally :P) I won't be doing anything dishonest like that again. I have started a new persona since the wipe as well and it's the only one I use. No editing at all. Just the basic fastest cars in class (and a few for fun here and there... mostly some 993 Carreras and the early 90s Turbos I like as well... they're not the fastest but I like em :)).
I guess what I'm trying to get at is that I miss racing you, Dennis. Frankly, it stings a bit that you avoid me at all costs on the servers. I used to enjoy racing you and some day I hope you'll be able to bring yourself to race me again.