Well, Alfa Romeo has put the foot to the floor, in the race to lead the high performance sports car pack, with a new model, and rumours of super-Alfa with which it hopes to terrorise the Porsche 911 Turbo. Looks like Alfa Romeo will be the friend of many an enthusiastic driver for quite some time to come, with these missiles.
Alfa Romeo here has decided to slash masses of kilograms for this GTA-m, and, decided to up the capacity of the familiar V6 to 3.6 litres, and, cranked the power to a feisty 222kW@6800rpm, some 37kW more than the standard 156 GTA. It puts the power to the ground through a specific close-ratio 6 speed manual gearbox, that includes a specifically designed viscous coupling to limit wheelspin, and torque steer at the limit.
We all remember the stunning Brera concept car, a powerfully emotive design, that was to be powered by a Ferrari 4.2 litre V8. Not so. It appears now that it will be powered by a twin-turbocharged version of the complex new Holden HFV6 engine, rumoured to produce more than 300kW.
VQ
03-01-2003, 02:34 AM
Yeah the high performance Alfa will dominate as will the new Holden engine but this version of it will ahve 300kw won't it? I mean these people won't mind a bit of turbo lag? and Saab is going to use that engine as well and u guys aren't going to se it but I am! I'll be going next weekend but still.
chris
03-01-2003, 02:51 AM
What turbo lag? With twin-turbos, you can do other strange things, now, like run slightly higher than normal compression ratio, and virtually eliminate turbo lag, completely. Anyone who still builds turbo engines that have turbo lag these days isn't really designing them right. Saab, Volvo, Porsche, Audi and Mercedes Benz do great turbocharged engines, now.
I've already seen one of the better Saab turbo engines, in the 9-5 Aero, tuned by Hirsch, the Swiss SAAB tuner. You'll soon be able to buy one here. It's got a hell of a lot of power, and big torque. But, it's costly, at $15,000 or so more than the standard 9-5 Aero's price. But the extra money brings new seats, new suspension, new bodywork, and a raft of mechanical changes, that justify the extra expense. It won't catch a standard 156 GTA, but, it will keep the Alfa Romeo in site, and that is an achievement in itself.
I still reckon the rumbling and bellowing V8 would have suited it better, but, the Holden engine will be just as effective, though not as nice sounding.
If you've heard Maserati's new V8, you'll know how nice it sounds. It must be terribly hard to drive those new 4.2 litre Maserati's and not be tempted to slam the throttle to the firewall, just to hear that sensational V8.
Now, one thing that production version of the Brera will have a problem with, when competing against the 911 Turbo, is, that it is rear drive, and the Porsche is all-wheel-drive. All-wheel-drive better controls the delivery of the Porsche's brute power and thunderous torque (it's got 565Nm at just 2700rpm!). The torque that the 911 Turbo has at low engine speeds is something many large V8's have trouble matching.. It surges hard at about 2500rpm, and, then, their is another massive blast at around 5000rpm. It's not just fast by the stopwatch, but, it really feels quick, too.
Maybe Alfa will use some kind of launch control system, perhaps, to help tame the power delivery, and prevent wheel-spin from slowing the acceleration.
VQ
03-01-2003, 03:04 AM
yeah but V8's can be Flat plane and sound like the Ferrari V8's or cross plane and sound like a 304 can't they?
And with turbo lag i have read that your prcious Ford XR6 turbo gets some turbo lag and the Subaru WRX gets lag. I saw TTV8 on the dyno and the twin turbos kick in at 3000rpm so the power jumped from a low figure to a much higher number.
Wat aobut the Porshce GT2? that wouldn't be beaten by this car would it cos that DOES ahve turbo lag fromt he revirews I read on it.
chris
03-01-2003, 03:43 AM
The GT2, yeah, they did get some turbo lag, though the Saab strategies of using higher compression ratios I'm not sure would work so well here (probably might result in engine troubles). It should be noted that Saab usually uses low-boost pressures, and smaller turbos, as well. That's an advantage for Saab, in achieving responsiveness, but, many of the Saab's are not the most powerful things going. But, Saab is the only one who is using such relatively high compression ratios on the turbo engines, nobody else does that. It's very odd, and unusual.
Porsche's target with the GT2 was massive horsepower, and, big torque, so they used big turbos, that don't spin up so quickly. It does have some lag, but, not very great, though.
It only presents itself in cruising at low speeds on the road, and, as anyone knows, the GT2 wasn't really aimed at road-use.. It's way too hard core for road use, anyhow. It's better suited to going flat-out at Le Mans, or stuff like that.
In it's defined role, on the race track, the turbo lag you don't notice so much, since the engine is usually revving beyond 3500rpm. The Ferrari F40 is like that, too, as is the Jaguar XJ220.
The XR6 Turbo I must admit, I've never experienced the lag from it's turbo engine. Anything from 2000rpm just gives you lots of useful torque, and quick acceleration.. You'd have to have it in 5th gear and try to accelerate from 20km/hr or 40km/hr to get the turbo lag, since, at any other time, it doesn't exist. It's just like a supercharged engine.
Try the same in a normally aspirated car, and you'll get the same thing, no acceleration.
The Maserati V8, it sounded a lot like a traditional V8 engine, rumbling at low speeds, much like any other large V8, and, with the traditional V8 bellow as the revs increase.
The V8's in the Ferrari are different. For these engines, they are aiming for high power outputs, and they do everything to make them rev, and rev very hard. They want the power, but, they don't want added weight, to go with it. Heavy engines in the middle of cars are not a good idea, since they can get twitchy and unpredictable. But, given the aim for high rev power output, in the 360 Modena, they've realised a flat-torque curve, as well, and that is good. In the Ferrari's they aren't so concerned with noise, so, the Ferrari V8s are quite raucous things. But, they stick within the limits of the laws, world-wide, though, as well as meeting the emission standards.
blackice111288
03-03-2003, 01:24 PM
tha 156 is off tha hook!! i wonder how much it will cost to ship one to the good ol usa?