So, would a new Diablo GTR interest anyone?

[chris]

So, would a new Diablo GTR interest anyone? One that looks like this one:

http://www.procar.com.au/images_02/special/500_2002_stokell11_h.jpg
If you are wondering what happened to the back of it, here, the 2nd driver, Anthony Tratt, made a mistake, and backed the big Diablo into a wall.. They got it back, made some temporary repairs, and, the car continued, and went on to win the 500km race. The car is driven by Paul Stokell, and Anthony Tratt, and entered by Team Lamborghini Australia.

http://www.procar.com.au/images_02/special/7a_stokell_h.jpg

Another photo:
http://www.procar.com.au/images_02/special/500_2002_stokell31_h.jpg

I could make this one, from my existing Lamborghini Diablo VT 6.0 SE, and do some high resolution textures for it. The VT 6.0 SE as it is is about the same polygon level as the existing Diablo GTR, and, after being remodelling into a Diablo GTR, would have less polygons. (Through the removal of the complex shaped rear bumper bar, and some of the vents on the engine cover at the back of the car, and also through the modelling of less complex Speedline Corse 5 spoke 18" wheels, for the car, replacing the massively complex OZ wheels that are currently on the car.

The Diablo VT 6.0 SE looks like this, at the moment:

http://gtmod.m4driving.sm/gallery/l8.jpg

It's already quite a smooth shape. So, do you people want it, or not? It'll be a 5 speed manual, not a 6 speed, though. The only problem I forsee is that this would probably be considered a cheat, since it would not be a SBDT car..

[MattB]

yea chris, i'd like to see that car realased, and ur definently the modeler to do it;):D

But plz, do you have to post such big pics? its gonna take me forever to download them...:nono:

[chris]

I'll admit, I don't know how they do the windows for cars in F12002.. =[ I'm not sure if special properties are applied to faces, or, if the windows are created using alpha channel on the textures..

If the latter is the case, then, I wonder, does the alpha channel function identically to what it does in photoshop, where black is fully transparent, white is opaque, and anything in between white and black gives you a varying degree of transparency?

If that is the case, then, it should be easy, as would putting the driver names on the side quarter windows. Should also be able to do the grill at the back with a lot more detail, though, it's already nicely detailed, and high quality. (The texture for that takes up quite a portion of the 256x256 texture map). I might even be able to do a nicely detailed 3d interior too (in terms of textures, as well).

Currently, my Diablo is built a lot like an NFS:PU car, but, only quite a lot more detailed, and with much better quality normals, and better texture mapping.

For a F12002 version, I'll need to scrap the textures I've got, and do completely new ones. It shouldn't be a problem though, since hi-resolution 1024x1024 textures are really easy to do. You have so much more space to work with, so you don't have to be doing strange things to make the textures look sharp.

[CookeMJ]

ummm, and potentially unlimited numbers of texture files...? I WANT to model cars in F12002, and just yesterday I started finding some utils like the MAS Studio and some sketchy tuts, and when I started pulling some cars apart I found that they refer to numerous .bmp's for their texturing - not just one 1024x1024 image. Personally I haven't loaded anything into ZMod yet, but my understanding is that it will display multiple "Textured Materials".
In the .bmps there were window textures - a greyish colour with detail for the driver's names and textures (like the Lambo's perspex slide cut-outs), with an alpha piece for the open windows displayed in hot pink. Maybe it was just that display tool, or maybe it uses that pink colour for transperancy - I don't know. Is it possible that the window piece is defined by ZMod as a transperant object - then textured grey (to give the semi-transperant glass/perspex qualities)?
I wasn't aware of Photoshop's gradual trasperency - I figured the alpha colour was used as a refference - like in NFS, one shade of grey reffers primary, another secondary, drivers hair, interior, and transparent. From what you've said I assume that must be NFS-specific.
I still haven't found the wheel meshes/textures in F12002, they don't appear to be in the vehicle's "Team.mas" file (exploded folder) - but MAStudio2002 indicates jpegs and various other file formats that don't seem to be present in the .mas files I've exploded yet.

Specifically Chris: as much as modelling your own car achieves a feeling of satisfaction, the pictures you've attatched are VERY simillar to the GTRmod's Diablo GTR - I understand your desire to build your own, but re-texturing one of the existing models would save a lot of time, and still achieve the desirable end effect; whilst avoiding the drama of modifying your existing model into a lesser, lower-poly, lower-detailed model. I would suggest the white/orange Alexander Frei car due to it's rear bumper and sexy stainless exhaust being much more simillar to the above images than the black Reiter Engineering car which has a very different shape to the side and rear skirts. But of course, it's entirely up to you - I'm sure building your own will open you up to a whole wave of education and experience; but will the end result be so much better than the existing ones to make that effort worthwhile?

[chris]

Oh, I'll do my own, definately. I don't like remodelling others work.. I figure, why put effort into something that I can never call my own.. That's why you should always make your own stuff. You can be proud to call the whole thing your own, and, you have no copyright problems, with one person owning copyright on one bit, and another person holding copyright on something else..

Think about it, if you modified or reskinned an SBDT original car, they could claim what you've done, as their own work, and their is probably not a thing you could do about it, since they own copyright on the original base texture, and the mesh. Just something to be aware of.

And besides, I'm not a fan of their Diablo GTR.. Not even 3d vents on the engine cover at the back.. :( Something like that would add a maximum of about 35 polygons, and yet add a lot more detail and quality, as would properly modelling the side part of it.

You'll see what I can do, when I've done the Sauber C9.. It'll be like the old WSC Sauber C9, but, with a smoother, less angular shape.

The Diablo GTR will come after that one.

Now, about transparency in photoshop. When you add an alpha channel in photoshop, it controls transparency in the file (or layer that it is attached too). The darker the shade of grey you use, the more transparent that area of the texture becomes, until you get to completely transparent when you use black, or, completely opaque when used with white. Try it, and you see what I mean.

When doing graphics in Photoshop, you can use the layer masks as a handy way to delete something from the image, but, not completely delete it.

That way, if you suddenly realise that you need whatever it is you deleted you can just paint it back in, by adjusting the layer mask. If you'd deleted it, by using the delete key, their is no way you can recover it, unless you've made a backup of the file.

The alpha channel colours reffering to making a part of a texture react in a different way, or be coloured differently, is just NFS specific. For everything else, the alpha channel is used for defining transparency.


What I assume that the pink colour you saw was, is your graphics software, showing partial transparency of the texture, perhaps. If you were to look at the alpha channel itself, you'd find it will be all grey scale, since it can not be anything else but shades of grey. By the way, can I ask, what graphics program are you using? That way, if you have questions, I could answer them more easily. I'm very experienced with Photoshop 6.0 or higher (I've got the qualifications to prove it).

A texture is usually 32 bits. The 32 bit image differs from a 24 bit one, in that it also has an alpha channel.

Now, 8 bits, means 256 colours, 16 bit means thousands of colours, and 24bit means millions of colours, and 32 bit means millions of colours, with an alpha channel.


I hope that I was informative enough.

[CookeMJ]

Indeed you were. The understand the pink I saw being just a display property - like how Photoshop displays the greys/black of the alpha channel as reds when the alpha channel is displayed but not editable (whilst editing other layers/channels).

I have Photoshop 5.5 at the moment; I might get a copy of 7 soon, although there's so much of 5.5 I haven't used. The program that displayed the hot pink - from memory - was the MAStudio's quick-viewer; the 2002 version has a direct-3D feature which displays the meshes in full texture and shows the image files aswell - in much the same way NFS Wizard would.

Whilst the SBDT cars look awesome, they certainly could have modelled the louvres and scallops correctly. I'd like to think you would even model the top section of the engine to see through the louvres too - as I would if I had the skills or time. I think you would most likely get away with an intake plenum and cam covers, mapped to the "ray-trace(??)" stainless material (like some wheels and exhausts, etc). I think you can map that semi-transparently too (like the glass), to apply a gold colour (check out some of the wheels close up) Although my mental image of a 30th Anniversary Diablo SE is probably nothing like the engine bay of a GTR. (I'm not even sure if you could see anything through the louvres anyway)

Another thought - how about a different, non-GTR specific field? That VT 6.0 SE looks extremely good - you could go for a flog in a field of so-called "standard road-going" supercars; unsponsered like with leather, normal windows, and that show-room feel. Or is that getting too much like NFS again? Is there a handling feature for AWD vehicles like the Diablo VT? Is it a problem if we make NFS-like "dream-car" sets to take full advantage of the visual, audial, and physical features of F1 2002?

[chris]

We must be telepathic, the GT-mod team, because we've got plans of doing something just like that (well I have, at least). I'm not sure how we would go about doing AWD cars (the physics data). And the Diablo VT's aren't actually a full AWD car, anyhow. It's what is called Viscous Traction.. If the rear wheels start to slip, then it sends some power to the front wheels, in order to maintain traction, and help prevent a spin.

It seems that multiple textures for F12002 cars may be a possibility, but, I think its more textures for the different parts, more like it.

Now, about seeing the engine through vents.. That's not very usual, unless its like a Ferrari Enzo, or a 360 GT (or360 Modena, or 360 Spider), with its engine under glass. For those sorts of cars, you can sort of semi-model the engine, but, use textures as the primary sources of detail.

The Diablo GTR's engine is not particularly glamourous looking, indeed, the whole engine bay is not very special looking, since it is designed as a racing car, with lightness in mind.. So it does away with a lot of nice covers, and so on.. This is how it looks:

http://www.km77.com/marcas/lamborghini/diabloGTR/gra/motor.jpg

The SE30 engine bay on the other hand, is very pleasing to look at, with beautiful gold finishes to most parts, perfectly done covers for everything, and it is just very nice indeed. The whole thing is nice.

Now, back to Photoshop. The pink colour you saw that is actually red, depending on the level of transparency, or whatever specific colour you set it to appear as.

Now, going from Photoshop 5.5, to version 6.0 is going to be a pretty huge leap, but, it shouldn't be too foreign though. If you ever need help with anything in that, just ask me, here, and I'll try to help out.

[Vince Klortho]

All wheel drive is an available option in the HDV file. I don't know the rest of the issues involved with making accurate physics though.

Have you seen the cars in RSDG's SportsCar Pack ? They used texture images in the windows to model engines and rear cockpit details and it looks really good. They did a terrific job with this release of 69 (!) cars. I have converted a bunch of them to 2002 and they are great fun with the GTR02 cars. Sorry - I can't and won't distribute those.

[chris]

Ah, very good..

Thanks for mentioning that. :D

[FIATLOVE]

So, do you people want it, or not? It'll be a 5 speed manual, not a 6 speed, though. The only problem I forsee is that this would probably be considered a cheat, since it would not be a SBDT car..

Yes we want it, of course :)
It seems like they are looking for modelers at SBDT, why not try go into a dialogue and maybe they will include it as a legal car.

Is there really limits for what they want to include in those mods? (as long the cars are real) hehe

I'm waiting for the sportscarpack02, but thank's for convert-tip :-), is it the same procedure as when installing the Porsche 917 Gulf and the 1972 Ferrari 512 in F1-02, using MAStudio02?