Well, I did try Racer, again.. My thoughts..

Well, I did try Racer again, the 0.5.05 Beta (or whatever it was called).. So, what did I think of it?

Graphics: Well, the graphics ran smoothly at 60fps on my computer, with 1024x768x32bpp full-screen mode set. Out of the cars I sampled, the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI Tommi Makinen edition seemed well modeled (in a 3d sense) and textured..

The sound and notably the handling left something to be desired.. It felt like you were driving a car with super-skinny low rolling resistance tyres (like those on an Insight), with a nasty, snappy tendency for power-oversteer.. In the real one you can just bang the throttle down, and it grips.

Very forgiving, the real car, but, not this one. The sound didn't seem accurate (nor did the too many revs, since the real one only goes to 6500rpm.) I'll forgive the sound quibbles, since it's usually very difficult to organise sound recordings of such cars.

And it also didn't seem stable under brakes, somehow.. I used my usual technique of touching the brakes 1st, to bring the car down on the suspension, and then applying much harder braking forces (avoids making the car unstable under brakes, due to sudden weight transfer from rear-to-front). This is the preferred real life method, but, it seemed to not work very well, here..

Perhaps the handling of the Mitsubishi still needs some fine-tuning?

Now, the Ferrari P4, seemed much better than when I last saw it. The wheels are a pleasant surprise, and, in general, it is quite nice. It's handling seems suprisingly surefooted, for an old-school mid-engine race machine (some of which had stormy handling tendancies). I can't comment on the sound, since I've not heard the real Ferrari P4. I did notice that the tachometre didn't seem properly calibrated though..

The track, Carlswood, seemed very well modelled, with no faults or glitches that I could find.

My overall impression? It seems good, so far, but, it is obviously a work in progress, which needs further fine-tuning, which I'm sure will happen.

The handling quibbles I think are more a problem of the tuning of individual cars, rather than any inherent flaw in the physics engine, itself.

So, I give it the thumbs up. -^ :)

[Justin Martin]

Yeah, the Mitsu is defenently way off, it's an old car.ini that hasn't been updated in a while. When v0.5.0 beta 3 was released, it changed the way cg's and rollcenters are placed, which means that older cars now have the cg and roll centers placed way too high. This is exaggerated by a weight transfer bug in the physics engine. Alot of cars are really twitchy under braking, which is caused by the combination of the transfer bug and too high cg. Additionally, we've only recently been able to get good, real life pacejka data, so the tires on older cars aren't very realistic.

Version 0.5.0 beta 6 should have the weight transfer bug fixed, and will implement user controled suspension modeling, (physical modeling of suspension arms, not 3d modeling) which will be a major change to how car.inis are written, so everyone is kinda holding off on updating their car.ini's until then.

[Frank N. O.]

When did this place get created?

Chris I'm glad you have found out the truth about Racer, namely that the quality of the sim cannot be judged by the user-made cars. One car I think you should try is Ryan's GT500. It's handling and tires are very authentic for such a car, this has been confirmed by an owner of an older Firebird with rouchly compareable specs.

The Lancer is indeed outdated but when beta 6 arrives for Windows I will start my long list of car.ini's and one will have a special place in my heart. The Mitsubishi Lancer EVO7 Step 2. Dbalban from Racer has been working for Ralliart Europe for the last 4 months and can get every single bit of info for this car I desire and need for the perfect car.ini the ultimate test of Racer physics. The model is already underway from the newest CAD-blueprints and spare parts he has borrowed from storage. And also I plan on updating all the rally cars for Racer with current and realistic values based on those given by Dbalban. Some Super 1600 cars might also be made, the 206 (my own car)'s driver is a friend of one of Dbalban's friends so maybe we can get some specs for it. I will update later if you are interested.

Frank N. O.

P.S. He is also well underway making a 15 km tarmac rally stage.

I did try putting one of my cars in Racer, but, it looked pretty awful, so I guess I won't bother any more with Racer..

It ended up upside down, and with 2 copies of the body (1 the right way around, the other upside down), and, with no textures, as well..

I was just going to put the model in Racer, and see how it looked, (but not release it, though) but, evidently, I won't even be doing that.

[Frank N. O.]

You can't just convert a car from NFS4 to .dof format. First off you need the latest ZM, then you need to delete the wheels from the body.dof file and you need to use Racer's modeler to make the body non-transparent, also you need to tweak the materials in there as well, it does a much better job for Racer than doing it in ZM. One important thing is that after you scaled the body 100x to see it in Racer modeler you need to go 100 down again or else the body has one half upwards and the lower half flipped upside down. I have made this mistake countless times.

One sad but important fact. Due to the lighting of Racer, low-polygon models that look good in NFS4 due to textures and the blurred graphics engine will recieve no mercy in Racer. This is why Racer models have from 5000-15000 polygons, depending of the level of detail and what shape the car has.

It's ok you don't like Racer, I still respect you and love your work for NFS4 and hope you can edit NFS6 if it ever comes.
Thank you for some great cars.

Frank Nevad Oreskov

P.S. If you really wanted to get your cars at their best in Racer I can recommend a trusted conversion team. Solicom aka Landon Baker, Toronto, Canada is the official Racer converter for Martin Leps' cars and he is very dedicated to making a good conversion. Look at the conversion he is doing on Fivespeed's NSX' on the RSC forum under cars WIP (it is authorised btw). He also has access to a huge media library so some larger textures for lights, instruments etc are highly possible. I make and tweak the ini files, handling and the working instruments and I am the chief test driver for Ryan T and am testing for others as well so I can be trusted as well. I don't even say I have these files, I enjoy to drive and see the cars myself so I am not tempted to "share" them.

I did get it into Racer, finally, and, it does look alright (better than it did in NFS:HS.. I haven't lined up the wheels yet, but, it looks okay.

The model I brought in was about 3314 polygons, so, it was fairly detailed.. If you are wondering, it was the Lamborghini Murciélago that I imported..

But, I can see why Racer is not liked by everyone.. It's a major undertaking just to get a mesh into it.. :eek:

Also, I must ask, what does the Carlab software do? Because, it doesn't work on my computer (just causes an exception error).

I will be keeping an eye on Racer, though..

[Frank N. O.]

Well basically carlab is only used for it's analysing. It tells you the weight distribution, frequency etc. but it also gives you a good estimate of the body inertia you need to set judged by the weight and size of the bounding body that should be the size of the body. It also recommends some spring and damper rates for the car.

Right now there is also a nice new feature where you can draw lines that represents the suspension links, but it won't be working untill beta 6 for windows.

Racer is a true hearted carsim and therefore it takes an effort to make a car but for me as a passionate car enthusiast it's great fun and a great tool. You should see how much time I use to make a car.ini, time for research in the first place and for what is missing I am using various types of photos, video clips etc. to set the car up as close as possible to the real thing.

Frank N. O.

[Y2kGoofball]

Hiya guys,

can someone here please give me the link to the racer 0.5 beta version?

I have version 0.49 or something similar but i want to try out the new one, and cant find it anywhere

Thanks guys

Y2k

[Justin Martin]

Go to racer.nl, then downloads, then scroll down to the paragraph under the "I want to download it for X opperating system" and click on the beta link, which is kinda hidden about halfway through the paragraph.

Or use this direct link: http://www.racer.nl/dl_beta.htm

It's confusing, but it helps keep newbies away from the betas, which may not be as stable as the final versions. However, so much has been changed since v0.4.9 final and v0.5.0 beta 5 that you have to have the beat version to drive the latest cars.

[Y2kGoofball]

Thanks, I wasnt sure where to find it, even searching through the download page

Y2k