The most powerful car you've driven...

[Wazza]

whether it be stolen, borrrowed or test driven, or even your own :D


mine is my dads.. Ford Fairmont 1995 Australian..

165kW standard, but with big bore and extractors has 175-180kW.... thats about 235bhp.. not that much.. :rolleyes:

[MattB]

does a go-cart that goes 120kmh count?:D

[Commander]

1990 Corvette ZR1 was the coolest (just a test spin), and when my 350 was still in good shape, my 325 HP T/A was a riot. Soon I will have the 406 in there, which theoretically will give about 435 HP, and around the same torque figure.

[NameX]

Our 4.1L 6 cyl XD Falcon. Which we've sold.

[Dylan]

they only car i have ever driven was a VW off road buggy, so whats that 30 - 40hp ^_^

[Radical-Al]

The most powercar I have driven is a errrr 2000 Mercury Sable, mmm, 200 HP 24-valve DOHC V6, mmm

[Justin Martin]

I think the most powerful vehicle that i've driven is my grandfather's Ford F-250 Superduty with the Powerstroke diesel, that engine only puts out 250hp (187kw) but it has 525lb-ft (712nm) of torque! It's towing capabilites are incredible.

[Kemperz]

Most powerful car I ever drove would probably be a saleen mustang. My friend owns a mustang thats just absolutlety frigin amazing, I don't know what he has done to the engine but the power behind that thing was just awesome. Well lets put it this way,it ran a 10.89 @ mission racway up her in BC.

[FIATLOVE]

Well, the most powerful was the Chevy Van G30 with a tuned 370bhp smallblock, but the fastest? Hmm, the 1968 Beetle is the "hottest", 220bhp, no contact with frontwheels to the ground when shiftin to 3rd speed :-) in accs, but the really quickest car (best times on known tracks) is the car I have now, not very fast, It's a Fiat Bravo HGT 2.0 20V, 5 Cyl-Lancia engine, 150 bhp, topspeed 210 km/h (the HGT loves it). It's a standard car, but the handling is wonderful, it gives nice averagespeeds on winding Norwegian roads, also in town it's cool, but it has most power from 80 km/h and up, it starts singing at 5000 rpm :love: , the engine has no bad rev-areas! It's just the most drive-willing engine I've ever met, I wonder how the turbo-issue feels (Fiat Coupe), the roumors says something like "micro Ferrari".
The Bravo feels so good, I really don't know if I want to change car to a Alfa Romeo 147 (my fav among my new-car alternatives), but sooner or later I have too, so I'm counting my fingers and wonder if I shall start search Europe for a Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo (225 bhp standard/ 250 km/h), it's only 2 exemplares in Norway! And 4 of my Fiat Bravo HGT...
Or I can keep the Bravo and buy a good old 1967-1973 911 S Coupe and fix it up (no taxes when importing 30years+ cars), BESTofUS is trying pushing me to do it ^_^
check out some specs and pics of Fiat's... (http://www.carsfromitaly.com/fiat/index.html)

Mads / [NO]Head :)

[VQ]

Well i haven't drove a car but can i count a Victorian G class with a 3800hP motor? My dad's a train driver so he let me drive the train for a bit when I went with him for a shift. pulling about 100 tons or so as well. if it doesn't I'm out other then going on a go-kart (dunno wat speed tho)

[[XR]Neo_]

I once got on a honda =))...

- Neo_

[DC_Tox]

Oh, well... if it's only about power, expressed in HP, then my top was reached driving a Leopard Tank when I was in the Army: 36,000cc, about 850-950 HP, 55 tons of weight, 95 Km/h top speed... (see here some detail of the Leopard 2) (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/)

Does it count? :D

[Sepecat]

2001 Bmw 740 IL not my car was my cousions friends. and the only Bmw I drove.^_^

[DCMattius]

A few years ago I got to drive a couple of the fast autocrossers cars. I was the registrar, so I pretty much new everyone. I drove a dual-turbo Supra, dual-turbo rx7, a kit cobra, dodge viper, Subaru WRX, and a few others. They all made my car look pretty slow.. :(

Matt

[Radical-Al]

Oh yeah, I started up a 120,000 dollar Mercedes 2 years ago, over 300 horsepower, but I guess that dosen't count.

[Wazza]

Yeah I hate when you drive a real nice car, with nice interior and smooth drive on the road, and then you have to go back to your own car. My dad just bought me a car.. under $100 USA.. I'm guessing it's going to be the BIGGEST POS I've ever seen.. it was up for $300, but it's my dad's mate and he was gonna give it for free. hahah. Stupid lil Honda City, I think.. maybe aronud 1982-84!

:'( :help:

Radic-AL: What sort of Mercedes Benz was it? Sounds like it might have been an old W140 model.. (The old brick shaped S-Class).

Yes, it may have had obscene, conspicuous consumption, and even the strong V8 engines were overwhelmed by its hefty 2100kg bulk, but, the V8 engines themselves were very nice. 245kW, the 5.0 litre version had. And a pretty ferocious sounding roar too.

Then their was that V12.. :rolleyes: It had very nice power, and torque, (290kW, 570Nm), but, all you could seem to think about with that car is the massive fuel costs.. :eek:

[Flitchy]

Most powerful car I've driven... um.. my lowly Peugeot 405 1.6 litre... lol no wait.. I drove my boss' Isuzu Trooper - um, but the handbrake was stuck on on one side :D
Most powerful vehicle I've driven: a 450HP Iveco Ford - but it was 50 feet long and weighed 38 tonnes.

I don't suppose being a passenger in an early 80's Aston Martin V8 Vantage counts? :D

[[MC]HMD]

1998 Dodge Viper GTS, Indy Red with 367 miles on it. It has so much torque, I spun the wheels at the first three stoplights, and I wasn't driving that fast. I got it up to about 85 on the interstate (any faster and it might grow wings and slowly lift off the ground) The thing that I like the most about it is the 5-point harness and of course, eight liters of V10 at your disposal. With all the Jap cars around here, it's very tempting to permanently drill the soles of your right shoe to the floor.

[Radical-Al]

Chris: It was the newest 2000 version I think, the one that first got the changed head lights, I think it was an S class.

Sounds like it might have been an S600, perhaps.

The only other one from that time I can think of, with more than 300hp, is the E55 AMG (with those 4 round headlights).

You'd know if it was a E55.. E55 starts up with an enthusiastic rumble. (A good clue to the wicked delights to be had, running at full throttle with that nice V8.)

[FDA]

Back when they were new, I drove a lot of Ferrari Daytonas -- we drove them up from the docks in New Jersey to Connecticutt. After that, at Ferrari Los Gatos, I drove a couple of very quick conversions -- a Datsun 240Z with a 350 Chevy engine, and a 911 Porsche with a 350 Chevy. Later, at my own shop, I drove some 512 Boxers.

But off the line, none of them beat my old 3-cylinder Kawasaki 500 which, when new, would blow off most anything up to about 90 mph.

[Radical-Al]

Chris: technically you didn't have to start it up, put the key in and push a button (i didn't know it at the time, lol) it was meant for "old" people and had all the creature comforts. 20 pounds of brake pressure and that is at 70 mph automatically...

[VQ]

Well In that case can i say i have been in Rob Vickery Twin Turbo V8 ute? it has 1000RWHP at the stage I went in it and it now has 1000RWKW which is pretty powerfull and I have been in a V8 supercar as well around the track pretty fast it was at calder 2. VS commodore ex - HRT car

[Radical-Al]

what is that in Horse Power for us Lazy American Yankees?

[VQ]

well 1000 rwhp would be 1000 rear Wheel horsepower and the other on is kilowatts which woulb be about 1200 HP sorry i did't clear this up

[1977Porsche924]

A 1999 Hummer H1, All i did was back it up.

[Paco]

Those are some nice cars, but my buddy works at Pfaff motors in Woodbridge, Ontario and we took the yellow 911 gt2 out for a spin on the private tarck when it was in canada and let me just tell you if you think the fusion of luxury and performance is your dads 99 3.2 tl type s your WRONG!

911 GT2 and luxury??

I don't think those two terms mix.. ^_^

The GT2 would have to be the most uncompromising and extreme creation I've ever come across.. The suspension on it is so firm. And although it has huge rear tyres which have heaps of grip, it's best not to use the throttle like a switch.

And that acceleration, god, the acceleration.. Certainly very fast. Fortunately, the brakes are more than capable of stopping the thing in a hurry.

[Paco]

Lol Chris, i didnt mean luxury as in performance luxury, i meant interior luxury. I never seen so much leather in a street legal race car! Gps is standard, and everyhting is wrapped in your choice of 3 colours of leather. believe me when i say luxury i mean luxury. this one had dark cherry interior, and everything that wasnt dark cherry leather was dark cherry wood!

[I'm Back!!!]

My first car was a 460 horsepower 1979 Ford Bronco. The engine was from an old cop car. The most powerful vehicle I driven without the engine being changed is the truck I own now, a 345 HP 8.1 Liter Chevrolet Avalanche 2500.

[VQ]

Jeez wats the fuel econemy on that thing? Is it injected or carbied? ne way I bet the economy doesn't matter with the torque you get from it right?

[I'm Back!!!]

It made tons of torque, not sure on how much it had, but it had well over 550 lb ft i know that for sure. It was a beast, and I had 'The Beast' painted on the side. As for the fuel Economy, well, it wasnt good, under 10 mpg. Very loud, had the least restrictive muffler I could find. When you hit the gas, it would slam you back in the seat. They were black fur seats with the Playboy Bunny Head Logo on them. The guy that had it before me, did most of the work. Except I put in a new stereo so I could hear over that big ass V8, and engine, tires, muffler, and the beast paint job. The original engine was a 351 V8, but the one I had put in was a 432. Still had 4WD, for the winter. Very hard to drive in the snow because of the engine. The 351 was only running on 6 cylinders, thats why I replaced it. The Avalanche I own now is much much more tame. Mostly becasue it weighs 3 tons, and has a 100 less HP. Got rid of the Bronco because the transmission got majorly screwed up. Popped out of gear often, and 3rd gear didn't work well. So I had to skip 3rd and go to 4th. I needed 3rd gear a lot because my dad and mom had a 6000 pound 23 foot long boat, and they needed a truck to haul it, and a Chevy Blazer aint gonna cut it. The docks where the boat was launched was in the middle of no where pretty much, and the roads had very tight turns and many hills. I think I just gave you my life story!^_^

[NFSracer]

does a go cart count?? cause that's all i've ever driven. NEVER have i driven anything else in my whole life.

[VQ]

Well that is counted as long as a 6hp ride on mower is coiunted as well

[Warlock]

When I was 24 I bought a 1972 Dodge Charger R/T, with a 427HEMI
in it, it had 29,000 original miles. The old lady I got it from, her husband owned it, he died and she just wanted it gone.

I picked it up for $2000 US :D not even knowing it had the HEMI in it;) , after I put 2 750 holly 4 barrel carbs on it , stock was a 650 double, and remanued' the a muncie 4 speed tranny in it, I got low 10 sec. 1/4 mile runs with it.

It had 600HP at 5200RPM's and 475 ft lbs of torque, I loved that car, but sold it in 1996 for 38,000 US to Sony Studio's in hollywood, after some studio exec. saw me driving it on Vine street.

Since that, I have had a 300ZX, SubaruWRX, but now own a 25 year Anniversary 5.0 Ford Mustang, it is sweet:HB:

[VQ]

Jeez wat year waz it? COs that is a monster I mean if I did up a VL turbo right (I know how to) I could get 10's but that is with stock internals and about 400RWHP not 600 cos the car weighs less.

[(UK)KREW]

A 1977 Pontiac Trans Am. It had a 427 Big Block engine. With 400 something H.P. My dad owned it since 1980 and it is so powerful that when you do a brake-stand you can see every tread in the tire on the pavement. It has a K&B quick shifter and I ****ing love that car.

Also my friend has a 1993 Nissan 300 ZX Twin Turbo. Very fast. It has an after market air intake, NOS, and several other add-ons.

But the most powerful car I've ever driven is my uncle's 1995 Lamborghini Diablo VT. It is yellow with the black VT lettering on the side. Oh my god I almost cam when I drove that car, if you know what I mean. :")

Well I guess that's it.

[VQ]

Well your friends 350zx would be beating easily by a R33/34 GT-R with simalar mods. But the Camaro would kick the Lambo's ass!!! Wouldn't it?

[(UK)KREW]

First of all it's not a 350zx it's a 300zx so if you are gonna talk shit about a car then get your facts right. Second of all your right a Skyline would beat it everyone knows that. Finally there is no way in hell a Camaro would beat a Lamborghini. Only a true idiot would think that. Sorry if you are offended but I was just tellin ya how it is m8.

(UK)KREW
A.K.A
Travis
8)~

[Radical-Al]

Travis, forgot about that Camaro that lost to that Mustang in that challenge that Car & Driver had in like 1999. ;)

[Kemperz]

Today I came to school and my buddy pulls up in a Ferrari F355 spyder!!!! His dad just bought it when he retired a couple weeks ago, my friend can't drive stick all that well and he was grinding the shit outta the gears and didn't wanna mess his dad's new car, let alone a ferrari up, so I got to drive it for likew an hour, we hit the highway around here, OMG!!! The frickin powers crazy, I had so much fun it isn't even funny, it was so dope. You should seen the looks I was getting, especially when I did a brake stand at a red light, man those things just light em!!!

Never mind the power, just listen to that scream! What a sensational V8 engine.

Once you've discovered the delights of the F355, you will end up buying one, yourself, later on. They are totally addictive.

[Kemperz]

Oh my lord, no kidding, I want one soooooooo badly, but thats not gonna happen for a long, long time. And the scream, that thing pumping along at 7500 rpm sounded damn fine!

[VQ]

Travis - thats wat meant 300 Zx got confused with the latest 350 sorry. I was actully talking about your dad firebird but forgot because the Fire Bird is based on the Camaro. But the Fire Bird with a 427 engine is bigger then the Lambos engine isn't it? I meant it might beat it under some circumstances like when the Lambo was rnning on 8 cylinders not that thats gonna happen.

The Lamborghini Diablos just go like the devil.. They pile on the speed so unbelievably quickly and easily, its astonishing, and, yet, the big V12 never sounds stressed, it just thunders along to somewhere around 7300rpm.

You can pretty much accelerate quickly in any gear except 5th (which is a extremely long gear, designed to allow 340km/hr.)

The Diablo way of doing things is best described by the Diablo GTR. If you've ever watched one racing (especially on in car video footage), you'll know what I mean about the engine never sounding stressed. It just roars along, effortlessly, and easily.

Quite smooth and refined sounding, too. The thing seemingly handles bumps very well, too. And the steering looks easy, too.

From what I've seen, it looks like the Diablo GTR would be a fairly easy car to race.

[VQ]

Well I've read up about v8 engines and stuff and I know why the ferrari engine scream instead of burble like normal Cross-plane v8's and that reason is that it isn't a cross plane v8 it's a flat plane and if U don't know wat it means then goto this site: http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_school/tech_index.htm

[blackice111288]

a tuned R34 Skyline GT-R Spec-V would smash any thing street legal posted in this thread. i was looking on some japanese websites,trying to look for any english word i could, and Veilside oned a white one that had 1,300 bhp!!!!STEET LEGAL(in japan:D ) ! But on ths side of the world, a 2001 Dodge Viper Venom 800 would put all your street legal cars listed here. They run mid 10's.:007:

[blackice111288]

lamborghini would be no match. they run 12's. ive seen one beaten by a stock 2002 Viper GT-S

[VQ]

Yes the skyline would have huge amounts of power but how much does it cost? I mean really who wants to spend $150,000usd+ for a car that U can't use ne where cos of the turbo lag? Unless the car is twin turbo and not running very high boost (above 20 psi) Lamborghini's would still beat most cars in handling and speed tho. Not everyone lives just for quarter mile speeds.

[blackice111288]

im pretty sure that skyline dont have to worry a bout turbo lag. and i dont think it would cost 150000 dollars to tunea skyline. probably 80grand at most if you went all out( of street lagality:D ).

[Radical-Al]

VQ, what are you talking about, didn't some Lamborghinis have V8 engines? I could be wrong... ohh oops, I am right there are V8 Lamborghinis! http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5849/8cilinder.html

;)

[VQ]

I'm talking $150,000 Australian not american.

[blackice111288]

sorry bud, u said 150000 usd. even if u meant aud, thats still $97,361 usd. if u spent that much tuning a skyline, then im assuming that u have a non street lagal skyline with every thing from blitz and hks's inventory.
in the us, a decent 98 skyline GTR can cost about 30grand ( including us saftey conversions) if u dont get it from motorex. a twin turbo upgade kit cost 3-10grand, upgraded pistons, camshafts, crankshafts, valves, valvespings cost around 3 grand; a bodykit cost around 1-3grand, set of 18 inch rims and tires cost 1500-3000 dollars, suspension setup can cost up to 4 grand, exhaust can cost up to 1000, intake cost about 1-2hundred. so that comes to $54,200usd

[chris]

Sure, you could get a Skyline, tune it to the moon, and beat a Diablo, but, you don't get the style of the Diablo, nor do you get the sound or feel of a real Lamborghini V12.

That's something special, that no other car offers, and what makes them special.

Lamborghini may do other engines, like the old 8 cylinder engines, from Urracco, and others, and the new 10 cylinder engne, but, it's the wonderful 60° V12s that are the most special.

[VQ]

For once I agree with u cos the lambo is a much better car over most cars - I mean for the price they must be!
But upgraded pistons, camshafts, crankshafts, valves, valvespings cost around 3 grand is complete bullshit for a good set of reliable pistons would be 3 grand and the camshaft would cost 2 grand cos there is two for some decent Billet ones, valves would cost about 1 grand for soe high flowing ones and u forgot about porting the head! I mean the old R32 Gt-R Race car with the rb-25det cost 100 grand for a Nizpro prepped block and stuff and they only lasted a season!

[blackice111288]

sorry but u proved yourself wrong agian. i was correct when i said that a set of upgraded pistons, camshafts, crankshafts, valves, ands valvespings cost around 3 grand. dont forget im talking usd cash, yo.

yeah a set of good pistons cost 3000aud, which is the same as 1900usd(4example greddy pistons cost 1600usd), and a crankshft cost 2000aud, which =1284usd. hmmm...and let me guess. 1900+1284=3184usd. notice i said around 3grand. you can get decent camshafts and valves and springs around 500usd. dont tell me what i say is bs, cus 85% of tha stuff i say is a true fact that i looked up myself. so quit trying 2 argue wit me cauze itz gettin nobody nowhere.

[Radical-Al]

blackice, heres a tip and a rule of advice in this situation, if you know something is definitly right and the other person is at fault, either by on purpose or on accident, don't worry about it, your right, hes wrong, boo hoo, big deal, get over it, and know that your right. move on. Geezz, you show your little kid side when you keep arguing, and adding to the flamage...

PS- you showed your point, move on...

[blackice111288]

sry.

i seen 1 of those lancer evo8's at the mitsubishi lot. it was yellow and i gotta say that was a phat car. i hear talk that upgrading the fuel mangement can get the car over 320bhp like the evo7. the supposed reason the new lancer only:D gets 271hp is because mitsu had to tune the fuel maps for better emmisions. i hate the emmision laws. thats one of the main reasons america never gets the good cars like the evo7, skyline, S15 silvia, and other cars.

[Radical-Al]

Theres no emission laws in Florida... we did away with them like 5 years ago. There are some pretty interesting cars here... ;)

An example.. I saw a VW with like a mile long trail of white smoke... maybe he put diesel in, instead of gas. LOL

[blackice111288]

there's no emmision laws in florida??? aw thats of the hook, caus im about top move there in pensacola. he he, now i got a reason to put a 4 inch exaust on my 240. just playin. thats stupid when people run oversized pipes. they make annoying sounds and they loose horsepower. i think the biggest exuast anyone should have is 90mm, but only on turbocharged cars and v8's since they have more gasses to get rid of.

[VQ]

Blackice: Well good luck to u but how long will them parts last for? I don't want an answer just think on it ok? I was refeering to Australian dollars as well.

[blackice111288]

most parts have warranties. but for some people, if the part breaks they fix it. i guess it would suck to blow a turbo and have to shell out 2 grand just for a new turbo. but i hear the some good turbos last for a really long time.

[TMiller]

Well I get to drive a 1966 Impala Wagon that has a 327 in it. It makes about 330hp and about 385ft/lbs. Its a blast to drive in the dry but once the rain comes go slow. It hits 100 pretty quickly for its weight and transmision

[VQ]

Kewl a 66 Impala! Wat u done to the engine?

[blackice111288]

i like 64 impalas, but only for cruisin, not racing. i'd race a 96 impalla ss.

[VQ]

Was that front wheel drive? If it is all u can do is stick in a Caddialc Northstar engine and go for it I reckon. BUt the olcer cars are better for racing cos they can fit bigger engines like 346 (LS1's) and of course big block's but the LS1 can be stroked out to about 427 cubes and fits in all commodres with the right kit for it so no piont in ne other enigne. Because the LS1 is the most advanced OHV Engine made.

[Justin Martin]

No, the '94-'96 Impala SS was rwd, based on our Caprice sedan. Basically, Chevy took a standard Caprice, made all the performance options standard, (LT1, etc) blacked out most of the chrome trim, different wheels, etc. Then started hyping it as the return of the muscle car. It was, though most people never realised the car had been available all along if they just had selected the right options in a standard Caprice. ;)

http://www.cars-on-line.com/96impala8477.html

[VQ]

Yer sounds like wat Holden ahve been doing witht he Commodores since the VC Commodore. But now it has the LS1 in it. And the Caprice down here is the LWB COmmodre luxury car which ahs a v8 standard. And wat about that turbo Buck in the 1980's? Thatz like the VL turbo cept it has the 3.8 litre v6 which is in the Vn onwards and of course the COmmodre is a lot more Aerodynamic and better looking.

[KV12supercharge]

Driven: Pontiac Grand Prix GTP
Revved: Ferrari 456MGT

[VQ]

At last! back on topic...

[blackice111288]

turbo Buick? ya mean Buick Grand National? i seen a twin turbo version on somebodies street racing website and it was tight. 600 horses under the hood and like 10 in the quarter mile.

[VQ]

The Buick Grand National can be tuned a fair bit more and now they have a stroker crank for the pre-ecotech 3.8 V6 whcih makes it go out to 4.3. But the Grand National is the American equivilent of the VL Turbo. Cept the RB30 is at itz limit unlike the Buick?Holden motor.

[blackice111288]

the rb30det was the motor in the grand national?

[VQ]

no the Vl has the Rb30 in it and the Buick has the 3.8 litre V6.

[blackice111288]

well i heard from someone else that the grand national engine was tha nissan block

[VQ]

Well they are BS cos it it is BUICK car so it would have a BUICK engine in it.
And i forgot to ask earlier how much Hrose pwoer would that Skyline that u modded get? 300? wel for less moeny then that u could supercharge and beef up the driveline of a camaro and have more then 400 rwhp!

[blackice111288]

a stock skyline gtr makes 300 hp, its just limited at 276. u can easily override tha power limiter. if i actually tuned a skyline like the one i said, it would be makin at least 530 hp on low boost(5-10 psi). and if they run 13.7 in tha quarter mile stock, then imagine what you'd be runnin with that. and skylines are faster than comaro z28's. some came stock with superchargers.

you said something bout u cant drive it erywhere cause the turbo lag. turbo lag dont got nothing to do with driveability.

[chris]

supercharged Skyline straight from the factory, eh? I don't remember one (unless it was from when they were still called "Prince Skyline" and not Nissans.

Every one I remember that was not normally aspirated was turbocharged.

Turbo lag indeed has a lot to do with driveability. A car with bad turbo lag will not accelerate responsively, unless the engine the turbos are "on boost". Otherwise, you have this waiting period.

It's well demonstrated on many very high performance turbocharged engines.

Let's look at some high performance turbo-engines designed for cars that must run reliably for long distances (not the max power "insert tuner name here" Skyline GT-R or Supra).

Like a Porsche 911 GT1. Here you have a 3.2 litre DOHC flat-6, with 24 valves, and twin-turbocharging. You have 600hp, and 600Nm of torque. (the racing model, I'm talking about).

At low engine speeds below 4000rpm, it is a docile engine, flat, and unresponsive. At 4250rpm, it picks up, and starts going. It clatters noisily, surging the car forward violently. Then noise picks up even further, beyond 5500rpm, where another huge surge of power can be noticed. From there on it screams to 7000rpm.

4000rpm is that magic point, above it, the thing flies, and below it, doesn't. It's not a problem for racing where the car will always be kept at optimum engine speeds, but, in other occasions, it is highly undesirable.

Compare such a car with a small highly strung turbo engine, to a large capacity turbocharged engine, like the Maybach Type 12 engine (found in Maybach 57/62, SL600, S600, CL65 AMG) and you feel the difference. These ones have no turbo-lag, and instant responsiveness.

In the CL65 AMG, from just 2000rpm, you are riding a 1000Nm torque wave. You have gigantic torque available even from idle engine speeds. It's what belts a CL65 forward so outrageously fast. It's not a lightweight car, and it is packed with every convenience feature imagineable, but it sure performs like a light weight sports-car. Even more amazing is that it is an automatic.

No fuss, no bother, just lots of acceleration. :)

It's even more impressive in the heavy Maybach 62. How a large heavy car such as this can cruise effortlessly at 200km/hr, with the engine revving at just 2600rpm, making no noise, is something amazing. It's all to do with driveability, and lack of turbo-lag.

[VQ]

Yes they are wounderfull engines for Wounderfuly high prices...
I admiore skylines and Supras in some ways but it doesn't seem as good to me as a Well Tuned 6/71 Supercharged 355 Stroked Holden revving itz guts out on a burnout pad really.

Have u seen 2 Fast 2 Furious Balckice yet? Well itz a good movie and the Camaro and Challenger are really good cars I mean they waste the Evo and Spyder but only lost because of the fact the put NOS on the EVO.

[chris]

I reckon that Maybach Type 12 engine (and it's derivatives found in the Benz cars for the common people who don't have hundreds of millions of dollars in cash reserves and 1 Maybach for each of there houses) are probably not that expensive to build. The parts in them probably aren't so expensive.

They certainly are not complicated, that's for certain.. Alloy construction, 3 valves per cylinder, SOHC, with twin-turbos.. Nothing really radical with the engine. Not even variable valve timing can be found on the engine.

But the end prices when included in the car probably are inflated a fair bit. (As all manufacturers do).

And what I mentioned about people having Maybachs for each of there houses is indeed true. Some customers didn't order just 1, but, ordered a few of them. Apparently 1 for the house in Europe, another for the house in America and a 3rd Maybach for the house in Asia for instance.. :eek:

I must admit I could easily adapt to living with such wealth.. ^_^ I could easily get to like being driven around in a Maybach, reclined in comfort on the Maybach's exceptional rear seats, taking in the DVD entertainment system and individual surround sound for each rear seat! :eek:

[blackice111288]

what r u talkin about? i said the comaros came supercharged as a factory option.

if i were that rich, i'd have a ferrari enzo, a lambo murciaglo(i cant say or spell that name :D) a a r33 and r34 skyline, 180sx, Sil 80, s13 s14 and s15 silvia, g35 sportscoupe, a 94 rx7 twin turbo, and a 2002 m3 and a 2003 escalade exc on 24s and all of em super tuned:)

yeah, 2 fast 2 furios was off tha chain. and if it was real life that evo would wasted the camaro easily. the eclipse though shouldnt have even been in that race wit the challenger cause no.1, challengers are fast- no.2 eclipses are slow as heck. was it a evo 7 or 8? i didnt see which side of the car tha steering wheel was on.

i think a good race would be the red RX-7, the pink S2000, the Skyline, the Lancer Evo, the Comaro, the Eclipse spyder, and the Challenger.
heres how i think they would place
1.Lancer Evo
2.Skyline GTR
3.Challenger
4.RX-7 twin turbo
5.Comaro
6.S2000
7.Eclipse Spyder

[VQ]

Now you ARE Wrong the Camaro makes plenty of power and is more powerfull then them 2.0 mlitre enignes and also u got to remeber that it was the only N?A car int he movie the rest had Turbos and if I had that sort of money I'd have a dozen or so of varius Ferrari's , Lambo's(including one of them 4wd ones) maserati's and a Couple corvettes and a camaro and then:
VX LS1 Senator with 20's and a vortech Z trim
VS Senator with 20's and Come racing alloy block storked to 400ci and Vortech Z trim blown.
VS V8 Supercar with a Powerdyne supercharger making about 7-900 rwhp.
VQ Caprice with airbags and Come 304 stroked to 400ci n/a
WB Caprice with a 6/71 427 Ls1
WH Caprice with 20's and airbags
Vn Group A
VS GTS-R and they WOULD waste allof ur dream nissans but thatz because of the cubic advantage.

[chris]

blackice111288: I'll show you how to pronounce Murciélago. It's a spanish word, so get ready to roll the tongue when pronouncing it:

Mur-thee-ar-largo

Now say it quickly, without hyphens.

[blackice111288]

thanx chris, but i still caint say it^_^ !
in this months sport compact car magazine they test tha cars from 2fast2furios. as i already suspected, the cars were just show cars, they were slower than they was stock!!!

the only car with some useful mods was tha comaro, it had a exhaust system, and is still slower than a stock lancer evo7 or 8. i'll prove it to ya.
tha comaro in the movie was stock except for the exhaust and it ran 13.7 and has a L72 V8 iron block and iron heads( stock engine)
a stock lancer evo8 has 233 wheel hp @5800rpm and 252 wheel lb-ft with the 2 liter 4G63 turbocharged and intercooled inline 4 engine and lays down a 13.4 @103mph

[Vette Boss]

I don't know why you would have problems pronouncing it, it rolls right off my tongue. I took a year of spanish though. ;)

[chris]

That VS GTS-R that Vqcapricedude mentions is one of the old model HSV cars, using 5737cm³ 2 valve technology V8 engine. Had 235kW power output (with the optional "blueprinted" engine. I can't remember the torque, but I think it was about 510Nm@3600rpm.

On the straight at Eastern Creek Itnl. Race way here in Australia, it could get about 188km/hr. Compare that with a completely standard 236kW E36 model BMW M3, that achieves 205km/hr on the same straight.

It's not a bad car, it just needs more engine power from a better 8 cylinder engine (the one it had was breathless above 5000rpm), more grip, and more braking power.

Just thought I'd mention a bit about it in case VQ's impression of it mislead you.

[VQ]

It on;y topped out at 188km/h? The a new Holden 225 kw VX can hit 220+ stock so I dunno wat ur on about but it has a aggresive kit ne way and it had a t56 which let it down compared to the later engines. Chris most of the cras I mentioned there have 2 valves just some of them are more powerfull and how can the GTS-R go 188 when stock group a's with less power but better heads and stuff go faster? Wheres the logic in that?

And u may have read stuff but if u had a EVo and I had a new Pontiac GTO (Holden Monaro) modded i could get 12 second flat qaurters with heads, cam, throttle ody and a decent exasut and some chip tuning Heck I'll give u a 10m headstart and see who goes better.

[FIATLOVE]

Fastest car ever driven, Alfa Romeo 156 GTA Sportswagon

BELLA MACHINA, BELLA!

Was just fantastic, and at the end of the trip, I parked a Porsche Carrera ^_^ (I came up behind it, decided to stay behind, when the guy from the shop sensed that, he and Fredrik/[NO]Good yelled in stereo "DO IT, DO IT", and WOOOOHOOOO that Porsche dude got problems ^_^ , he did some hard work inside his cockpit but it didn't help him much, guess he wasn't aware what kind of 156 who came up from behind, he must have been in "shock" :D

A perfect end of a trip in a perfect car, stunning blasting fun :jump: :biglove:


Mads

[chris]

VQ: On Eastern Creek's main straight, it topped at 188km/hr, little faster than Jaguar XK8 (a convertible version, of all things most unsuitable for lapping a race track), or Porsche Boxster (2.5 litre), and was out-lapped by a number of cars, including E36 M3, Boxster, WRX (just a standard 155kW base model).

Through some of the turns, it was fairly competitive for cornering speed, but, somewhere in between, even with it's second best power-to-weight ratio (second behind M3) it seemed to lose time.

They rated the WRX as the surprise car, while argueing over whether the Nissan 200SX (aka Silvia) or MX-5 should be rated next best. The MX-5 was lauded as having great handling, but, with the power being too modest, and it could easily handle more, while the 200SX got lauded for its nice engine, but not the oversteery handling and moderately sloppy suspension.

It was a very fair comparison test, between many cars. All done by a race driver, with the electronic measuring equipment recording straight line speeds, cornering speeds, G forces through corners, speed through corners, and overall lap times.

The M3 did indeed, win, but not because it posted the quickest lap time. What really impressed them was how it put the power down so well, and it's very precise steering.

I've still got the report.. I'll gladly scan it.

Mads: Sounds like you had fun in the practical GTA. ;)

[VQ]

bad car I guess Chris.... Beacuse they can go much faster and I ahve seent hem go faster on sandown at the HSV/HDT nationals.

[FIATLOVE]

An unforgettable hour it was Chris :D

The M3 has rumours to be one of the very best "streetracing" cars ever made, our local hero, Tommy Rustad (STCC in Opel this year) says the M3 is his favorite toy at tracks, and the reports I've seen looks very positive.
Maybe I should do some more practice with it on the Ring (M3 mod), I need to learn more front-engine rwd-tecniques &(


Mads

[chris]

GTSR - 75 was the license plate the car had, I think. It had the blueprinted engine, as well. (expensive extra).

Remembering more of the test, I can recall the rear-drive Nissan 200SX was harshly criticised for being way off the pace through turn one, where it just wouldn't settle down.

Real surprise was the 2nd quickest through turn one.. What was it? Some exotic sports car? Not at all! :) A soft riding Citroën Xantia, doing 152.7km/hr. (Against the M3's 153.3km/hr)

The Citroën of course has the hyda-active suspension always attempting to keep the body of the car level in all conditions.. The slalom test sadly had the suspension system well and truly confused.. It would have done a fast lap time, if only it had more than the too modest 108kW (from a low boost turbocharged 4 cylinder engine). I remember vividly the photo of it, with the Xantia cornering wildly on 3 wheels only. ;)

Mads: Do you know the BMW M3R? It was a E36 model series car, built for club-racing, with a 3.0 litre 235kW engine. That was probably the finest "normal" M3 made, I think. Such an incredible car, with such incredibly precise steering. The way it handled. It was truly a brilliant car. And the noise, oh god, the noise it made. :love: A normal M3 sounded timid by comparison.

[VQ]

Well it was only a extra 10 grand which didn't even make the car go into the high 90's which the Vt GTS series two was. BUt the Sentor Signiture had the 230kw blueprint motor on all the 10th anniversary version. I'd like to see a pic of that Xanita if u have one on three wheels I mean.

Did u also think that the owner wasn't going flat out down the straight in the GTS/R cos they can go hard as I said before.

[chris]

It was a race driver, who did the laps for all of them, and he was pushing. The driver was Kevin Bartlett. He offered a lot of praise of the way the HSV cornered. He even reckoned the brakes were pretty good too. He commented that they felt like you could use them later and a lot harder.

I'll have to scan in the photo of the Xantia.. It's a classic, seeing the subtle looking black Citroën 5 door on 3 wheels, at high speed. The inside rear wheel was high in the air, while the suspension is presumably trying gallantly to keep the car body level.

Bartlett reckoned at first it was too soft, and too much body roll, but, later commentated that after a while, you realise, that while the body is moving about a fair bit, the wheels are actually sticking to the road. He commented that after a few thousand kilometres you'd be right at home in it. He summed it up as a hellish funny little car, that grows on you. :)

[VQ]

Which is y I will be having airbags fitted to my VQ when I have the $5000 to have it fitted.

[FIATLOVE]

Xantia.. Citroën , the 2.0 version, wooohooo, that's wolf dressed as sheep, 170 hp, a wonderful sound it has too.
Yesterday I took some pics of an old Fiat Abarth, the owner works at the "racing-cafe" 200 meters away from my home, he have a Xantia like that, 230 km/h topspeed he said
Wonderful car IMO :)

Chris, I'm not sure about the M3R, will check...


Mads

[chris]

M3R:

S50 3.0 litre inline six
Power: 324hp
Torque: 236lb/ft
Weight: 1290kg
Tyres: slick racing tyres.
Brakes: AP Racing 4 piston brakes
Interior fittings: full roll cage, six point harnesses, fire extinguisher system.
0-100km/hr: under 5 seconds

It was pretty much a race car, but, it had so many qualities. It was a really good car.

[VQ]

Do u know much about the Renault Sport Spider?. I have it in a book i got from the library and it looks pretty kewl but less practical then the elise.

[blackice111288]

VS GTS-R and they WOULD waste allof ur dream nissans but thatz because of the cubic advantage.

cubic advantage wont help u when your paired against a lighter car wit more hp and turbos,so dont tell your self dat lie, vq.


hey chris, have u seen or heard about tha BMW M3 CSL? i think its supposed to start selling in late 2003-early 2004. it looks like a 2003 M3 but in the left side of the air dam theres a large hole where a much larger air intake system is plumbed from. its the same 3.0 liter flat six cyl. engine from the m3 but along wit that intake its got a less restrictive exaust system and some suspension tuning. it makes 360 hp(i dunno if thats at the wheels or the flywheel). the m3 already runs 13.3 in the quarter, so imagine how crazily fast this'll be, not ta mention the handling.

[VQ]

Black ice it isn't a lie I know a 10 second street legal and drivable supercharged car would beat a lighter car with less power and higher boost. How many evo's make 1300hp at the wheels? THere are 3 commdores that are twin turbo.

[chris]

Yes, I know about the M3 CSL.

It's featuring a heavily re-worked S54 BMW Motorsport inline-6 engine. And you can trust me, the standard M3 sounds absolutely timid in comparison.

It might even surpass the old M3R as the best M3 of all, for performance and handling.

It's not a car for road use, though. It's designed as a track car.

It looks surprisingly different too. The little changes give it a different appearance.

[VQ]

http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/classics/brochure/page09.htm
There u go straight from HSV's mouth to u thatz on the GTS-R and this:
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/classics/brochure/page04.htm
is about that Vn Group A ok?

[blackice111288]

Black ice it isn't a lie I know a 10 second street legal and drivable supercharged car would beat a lighter car with more power and higher boost. How many evo's make 1300hp at the wheels? THere are 3 commdores that are twin turbo.

ya cant really compare cars by saying a 10 second ca cause its to indescriptive as 10 sec's is a broad range or time and it dont describe the performance, and it's to The Fast And The Furios-ish.

and that really dont make any kinda sense cause (assuming both drivers are equaly skilled) a lighter car with the same or higher hp as another car will beat it in the quarter mile.

why.....?the less weight a car has, the better accelaration it has. even if it was the same weight and had higher power and more boost it would win the 1/4. so imagine how much of an edge being lighter has.

theres a integra in Jacksonville Florida with a 21psi apexi single turbo-charged B18C5 that makes 465 hp at the wheels and runs consistent 10.6's in the 1/4 mile ,with no nitrous, on street tires and in full street trim( a passenger seat, spare wheel, fully street legal parts).

and as far as i know, there's no street legal evos that make 1300 hp. but why would anyone need one? it wouldnt be a good daily driver and it would probably warp the engine, and they already got 235 hp at the wheels ( 271 as advertised is at the flywheel) they run 13.4. in drag racing, less weight is the way to go. which is why 4 and 6 cylinder engines are better tha v8's.

[blackice111288]

so youre saying the m3 csl isnt street legal? that sucks, as it would make for a great late night civic and mustang stomper.

another bad bimmer is the 1995 or 96 m3 lightweight. i dont no the exact specs, but i think it hit 0-60 in somthin like 4.8 secs and cut the quarter in late 13's and had crazy handling.

[blackice111288]

oh yeah......
revved: mom and dad's 2000 chevy suburban LT and uncle's olds delta 88.
driven:YALL BETTER NOT LAUGH!!!!!!:D moms 2000 dodge caravan. it had nice accelartion for a van and it sounded nice when reved^_^ seriously. heyy, at least its faster than a civic and handles nice.:D

[VQ]

Ah yeah.... No offense but a Shi!tload of cars can beat a Civic stock. I'm not argueing ne more because u are too blind to make room for evo's and stuff but I may have not said it but I do apprecitate the 4's and 6's because they help develop the V8's.

[chris]

blackice111288: The M3 CSL is designed for use on the race track (it even has almost slick Michelin race tyres on it), but, it is road-legal, but probably not in all countries.

It's one of those special machines that is a real weapon on the track, that just happens to be road legal too. Others that have a similar concept (but varying performance levels) are:

Koenig C62
DP Racing 962
Schuppan 962CR
Dauer Porsche 962 Le Mans (probably the fastest on a race track)
Porsche 917 (1 road version exists)
Porsche 911 Carrera RS Clubsport (3.8 litre big bore monster)
911 GT2 Clubsport (993 and 996 models)
911 GT3 Clubsport
Ford GT40
Ferrari F40
Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale
HSV HRT 427
Lotus Exige
Porsche 911 GT1 (one of the wildest of all of them)
Mclaren F1 LM (a tuned UP version of the F1 GTR race car)
Nissan R390 GT1 Roadversion (pure race car, but somehow road-legal)
Toyota GT-One (another pure race car, that is somehow road-legal)
Mercedes Benz CLK-GTR
Lamborghini Diablo GT

So, when you look at all the road-legal race cars, you end up with a pretty small group of cars. And a large proportion of them are FIA GT1 class cars built as race cars first, but, made to comply with road-regulations and necessary crash test requirements.

In the case of the F1 LM, motorsport limitations meant that the F1 GTR ended up being a detuned version of a normal F1, without fan-assisted boundary control, and less power. So, in building the F1 LM, Mclaren didn't use the throttle restrictors, and made other changes, resulting in a car basically the same as a GTR, but, with the most wild version of the S70 6.1 litre V12 found in any F1.

A lot of manufacturers don't have the guts to build such cars. I respect and admire those who do, though.

[blackice111288]

whats a Nissan R390 GT1 Roadversion? i think i might know what ur talkin about but i dunno fa sho.

[blackice111288]

No offense but a Shi!tload of cars can beat a Civic stock.

no crap, thats why i said my moms caravan was faster than one so ya couldnt say it was super slow.

I'm not argueing ne more because u are too blind to make room for evo's and stuff

just a question, what are ya talking about, i love evos and i dunno how many time i been defendin them on this message board.

[Radical-Al]

i hate the older evos with the stupid bigger than headlights fog lamps... ewww

[chris]

R390 GT1 Long tailed race version:

http://www.automotivearticles.com/infiniti-nissan/r390b.jpg

R390 GT1 Long tailed road version:
http://www.automotivearticles.com/infiniti-nissan/r390a.jpg

R390 GT1 short-tailed race car:

http://www.automotivearticles.com/infiniti-nissan/r390c.jpg

R390 GT1 short-tailed road car:
http://www.automotivearticles.com/infiniti-nissan/r390d.jpg


Specifications (road version):

Base Price: $1,000,000
Vehicle type: 2-door 2-passenger coupe: mid-engine, rear-drive

Powertrain:
VRH35L
3.5-liter DOHC 32-valve V-8 twin-turbocharged
550 Horsepower @ 6800 rpm
470 Ib-ft of Torque @ 4400 rpm
6-speed sequential transmission

Performance:
Acceleration 0-30 mph: 1.2 seconds
Acceleration 0-60 mph: 3.3 seconds
Acceleration 0-80 mph: 6.0 seconds
Acceleration 0-100 mph: 9.7 seconds
1/4 mile: 11.9 seconds
Top Speed: 207 mph

Suspension:
Front: upper and lower A-arms, tube shocks, coil springs, anti-roll bar
Rear: upper and lower A-arms, tube shocks, coil springs, anti-roll bar

Wheels:
Front: 18 x 8 in.
Rear: 19 x 10.5 in.

Tires:
Front: 245/40ZR-18
Rear: 295/35ZR-19

Brakes:
Front: 14 in. ventilated discs
Rear: 14 in. ventilated discs
ABS: standard

Misc:
Wheelbase: 107.1 inches
Length: 185.8 inches
Width: 78.7 inches
Height: 44.9 inches
Base curb weight: 2420 pounds
Steering: rack and pinion

Notes: The road version is detuned. The cars were constructed by the now insolvent Tom Walkinshaw Racing concern. If the headlights on this car look familiar, then, that is because they are.. They are the same as what the old 300ZX/Fairlady Z Twinturbo used.

Reliability troubles caused grief on the first year at Le Mans, but they were very quick, qualifying fastest. The next year they returned, but with a too conservative race strategy, and while they finished, it was not a win.

[blackice111288]

yep, thats tha car i was thinking about. speaking of Le Mans race cars, have ya ever heard of a japanese manufacturer named Dohme? thay made a concept of a strange type of super car called a Zero but it never met Japans road safety regulations. but they make race cars now with other comanys. like in tha JGTC they colaborate with mugen and honda and a NSX. you can go ta their web page @ http://www.dome.co.jp/e/museum/car_m/car_m01a.html and look them up.
i copied and pasted a pic and some specs, but the photo didnt show and the other stuff was in Japanese. i salveged were i could so...

1978 DOME Zero

1 Pferdestärke (PS)= 1.014 hp

displacement 2800cc
power145ps
front tire size185-60VR13
rear tire size 255- 55VR14




how do ya paste pics on here?

[chris]

Yes, I know of Dome quite well.

They make some decent LMP900 prototype chassis', to be engined with pretty much whatever the customer wants, but, usually a Judd V10 engine.

Fast cars, with a distinctive sound. Not a Viper like V10 sound, but a screaming note, that snarls on the downchanges.

Also, you see that blue R390 GT1 above, the road-version? I've seen that exact car in person. Looks beautiful outside, very sleek, but inside, it looks rather different. A race car interior that is faintly glossed over with leather trim to make it look nicer. And it is cramped. 2 people will fit in it, but their elbows will surely clash.

[blackice111288]

yeah, that is a pretty car. it kinda looks like this porsche i saw on speed vision one time. ya know, if i was in tha supercar market and had a millon bucks i think id get a mclaren f1 or that ferrari enzo or a 2002 viper venom 800tt. hey, i seen some tuner vipers in a magazine and as goofy as the words tuner and viper sound in tha same sentance, these cars were all business. one was a black viper acr and had all the internals done and the headwork, twin turbo charged, exhaust and intake and some other stuff and had like 1300 hp! no kiddin!! if i go on the website i'll see if i can get tha article.

[Radical-Al]

if i had a million dollars, i wouldn't spend all the money, spend maybe half of it so i could actually pay for the insurance and have a car for a long period of time... muahahha ;)

PS have enough money in case of emergencies (like wrecks or un predictable accidents) ;)

[blackice111288]

smart thinkin
:D :D :D :D -^

[chris]

blackice111288: The Porsche you are thinking of is probably this one (see the presentation link on the main page of the site in the following link):

http://www.962lm.com/

That is the wildest standard production road-legal car in existance. As far as I can tell, nobody builds or has on sale yet a standard production road legal car that is faster than this.

This is an image from the Grand Touring NFS4/F12002 website (from the rollover on the main page):
http://gtmod.m4driving.sm/images/main_menu/cars_rollover.gif

That's the speedometre that the 962LM has in its instrument cluster (I recreated this from scratch from photos of the original.). And they are not being optimistic with 420km/hr, either. The thing has been clocked at 404km/hr.

I like the F1, because it's practical and fast (and apparently quite reliable too, although service costs are out of this world), but the 962LM is more special. It's more special to me because it a road-legal Group C race car.

To many (or at least those born after the late 1980's), Group C probably won't mean much. But the older motorsports fans, they know what that category name is all about. It was the name given to some of the fastest race cars ever built to take on long distance endurance races.

The speed they had, with ground effects devices, particularly through turns, was absolutely scary. I remember vividly the demonstration lap given by Derek Bell (One of the most legendary race drivers from the 1970's and 1980's) around the Nurburgring Nordscliefe, in a 1982 or 1983 model 956C. Absolutely frightening.

I think a link to the video still exists here:

114mb: http://www.lad.lv/~martini/porsche/Videos/Nurburgring-956.mov

Download it if you haven't seen it before. It will change your perspective on what fast is. :)

[VQ]

Yer I like the VH Group 3 and the race car with the WIIDE flares and tyres truely insane......

[chris]

Further to my post before:


The Road Car That Won Le Mans - Ian Kuah tests the Dauer 962 LM on German soil.

The night is always long at the 24 Heures du Mans, the most famous motor race in the World. Reputations are won or lost here, whole media campaigns built around the winning cars. For spectators, many of them who traveled hundreds or even thousands of miles, Le Mans is much more than a 24-hour motor race. With the sights and sounds of the cars, the tension in the air and the fairground atmosphere of the infield, it is almost a cultural experience.

Culture, however, is the last thing on the minds of the pit crews. Unlike the drivers who try to sleep between stints, the team managers and mechanics don´t get a wink for the duration of the race. Adrenaline keeps them going. They need that high to keep them sharp, for when something goes wrong, they have to have their wits about them to get the car back in the race as fast as possible. Split seconds may not be as crucial as in a sprint race, but as the SARD Toyota team found out this year when the gear linkage had to be repaired on the leading car, the time it takes to maker and drink a cup of coffee is still the difference between winning and coming second. Thierry Boutsen, Hans-Joachim Stuck and Danny Sullivan in the Dauer Racing Porsche 962 LM were lying a strong second to the Toyota 92CV driven by Eddie Irvine, Jeff Krosnoff and Mauro Martini, Running third was the other Dauer Porsche driven by Mauro Baldi, Hurley Haywood and Yannick Dalmas, a lap and half behind. At Le Mans, that means 13 miles!

Then the lead Porsche suffered a minor off-course excursion, followed by a drive-shaft failure. This was soon fixed, but in the meantime Baldi, Haywood and Dalmas were Porsche´s only hop for victory. Painfully slowly but surely, they ate into Toyota´s lead until a blunder found both Porsches arriving in the pits at the same time. In the confusion, the lead Porsche lost nearly half a lap to the Toyota.

Near the end of the race, when it looked like the Toyota was going to snatch the second-ever Japanese victory at Le Mans, its gear linkage went. Jeff Krosnoff managed to limp back to the pits, but in the 13 minutes it took to fix the problem, it was all over. The Dauer 962 LMs finished first and third; Porsche had won the 24 Hours of Le Mans yet again. In fact, it was a double-whammy for the Stuttgarter´s, as a Carrera RSR also took top honors in the production-based GT2 class.

Traveling Clothes

The Dauer Racing 962 LMs took part in Le Mans this year at the behest of Porsche. Originally meant to be a civilized street version of the mot famous Group C sports car in history, the 962 Le Mans has completely new Kevlar bodywork and a totally bespoke interior compared to the standard racer. The 1994 Le Mans regulations published by the organizing ACO (Automobile Club de l´Ouest) allowed very low-volume street-legal sports cars to to race in GT1 or GT2; the Dauer racing 962 Le Mans was such a car and was thus eligible. It was sheer irony – and a loophole in the regulations that the French authorities tried to plug but could not – that allowed a fully fledged Group C car to be converted to a road car and then back to a race.

When Jochen Dauer first conceived his 962 road car three years earlier he had no idea that it would someday win Le Mans, but his name is no stranger to the Sarthe circuit. Dauer Racing is linked to a string of IMSA and German Interserie successes, and famous names like Hans-Joachim Stuck, Bob Wollek and John Andretti have driven for the teams run by Jochen Dauer. When the deathknell of the turbocharged Group C cars was sounded in 1991, Dauer began to explore the possibility of developing his own road-legal version of the car. One of his first stops was to contact stylist Achim Storz, who used to work for Porsche Design and penned the famous McLaren M26 F1 car of the 1970s. Latterly, Storz has designed concept cars for Audi, BMW, Citroen, VW and Nissan.

The first sketches showed a car much more rounded than the Group C racer and this became the logo for the project that appears on all Dauer´s literature and T-shirts. The shape was distinctive for its larger, more rounded windscreen than the race cars. This larger and longer `bubble´ gives a greater feel of space and the finished car is actually 7cm higher over the roll cage.

The next step was to transfer this 2D concept into 3D and industrial designer, Gert Hildebrand was brought in to make model from the drawing. In fact, the design team missed out on step which is normally to produce a 1:5 scale model and they went form drawings to a full-size mock up. This was not actually a problem except the mock up was built on a platform 50cm off the ground level. “When we finally brought the car down to ground level, we discovered a lot of mistakes had been made” Klaus explained, “purely because of having the car off the ground we looked at it.” These were corrected and pattern work began in July 1991. This took a year, and then they began an intensive program of wind tunnel testing by Dutch race car designer Wiet Huidekoper, based in St. Neots, Cambridgeshire, to resolve aerodynamic and stability issues. With a shorter nose and the increased ground clearance needed for the road, the car was unbalanced and carried to much rear downforce. Work was thus directed to increasing downforce at the front. When all these issues were resolved it was found that while total downforce was now just 40% that of the Group C race cars, the drag coefficient had also dropped to a very good 0.31Cd. This very low drag figure was significant for the Dauers projected top speed, the target which was 400 km/h (nearly 250 mph) a very reasonable goal considering the speed potential of the much higher-drag race cars. The interior is work of Reinald Mattes from Ludwigsburg. He came in and used 300kg of clay in the process of making a full sized mock up from which he could take moulds! “ He changed his mind twice during the design process, “ Klaus explained, “but he did a very good job and managed to squeeze in the two full-size seats we wanted.” When the final design was approved, polyester moulds were taken off the plaster, finished with body filler and then the final patterns were used for the production pieces which are made from carbon fibre. These patterns alone wound costing the equivalent of $125,000!

Power Plays

The engine is the Le Mans spec 2994cc watercooled flat six with DOHC per bank of cylinders and four-valves-per-cylinder. Twin KKK turbos are employed with charge-coolers on either side and the expensive stainless-steel exhaust system with four exit pipes has catalytic converters which help to meet EEC emission standards. Engine management which is Bosch Motronic 1.7 which helps tractability, emissions and, of course, output, which is 730bhp at 7400rpm with 517 lb ft of torque at 5000rpm. Drive is taken through a 5-speed all.synchro and (of course) a limited-slip differential.

A hydraulic-operated sinter metal clutch takes this power to the road via a five speed, all-synchronized gearbox and there is , of course, a limited slip differential in the axle. Suspension is by double wishbones in front and inverted wishbones at the rear with transverse links and radius rods. The dampers have concentric titanium springs and the anti-roll bars are adjustable. Spring and damper rates of the road car are considerably lower than the racing version. There is a ride-height control system to help the car negotiate speed bumps and garage ramps.

With a kerb weight of just 1080kg (Group C cars raced at less than a ton), the 962 Le Mans will rocket to 60mph in 2.6 sec, in first gear and reach double that speed in 7.2 sec from rest! Top speed is – ahem - a rather remarkable 251,25mph!

Containing this sort of performance is hard on the brakes and these are 355mm diameter Brembo vented discs with 4-pot calipers. The road car gets specially made 6-spoke Speedline alloy wheels of 18 inches tall and 10 wide up front , 11 at the back, the racing version uses BBS wheels In road form, the Dauer Racing 962 Le Mans made its public debut at the Frankfurt Show 1993 from which it went on to the motor show in Dubai at the end of November. “Although not involved in the project at all, unofficially Porsche had been very helpful in sourcing parts and advice for the project and, once the car was finished and on show, they became somewhat warmer to the idea,” Jochen Dauer explained. “We started the project in 1991 as a pure road car, although we always said it would be possible to race it in the projected GT class with F40s and Bugattis. We were not too much surprised when Porsche approached us in December 1993 to discuss a possible Le mans entry.”

Porsche had been planning to enter the 993 in turbocharged form at Le Mans, but lack of development time meant that it might not be that competetive in the GT2 category. Besides, GT2 was not as fine as an achievement as winning outright, and it had been some years since Porsche had claimed a Le Mans victory. The factory reasoned that, as the Dauer 962 was homologated as a road legal sports car, it was eligible to be turned into a GT1 Le Mans.

Bottom Soundings

And then in January, the ACO, governing body of the Le Mans 24 Hour event, introduced the flat-bottom rules which caused a big hiccup in the car´s specifications. With about 40 per cent of a racing 962´s downforce due to its underbody configuration, the Dauer 962 was fine for fast autobahn sweepers taken at 180mph, but if it were to comply with the Le Mans flat-bottom rule, it would have no downforce at all! And on a racing track you need substantial downforce to generate competitive and safe cornering speeds.

Dauer and Porsche thought long and hard about the rules and then decided that the only way to meet them was to homologate a second version of the road car with an underbody configuration in front and on behind the axles that could generate the needed downforce in conjunction with spoilers that were allowed to be used.

And so the 962 Le Mans Sport version was born with a longer nose, deeper tail with double wing (you could add a spoiler, which meant you could have two if you started with one!) and a flat underbody between the front of the front tyres and rear axle, Dauer than added two small air tunnels in front of the front tyres and aft of the rear axle for airflow control and brake cooling. “It all happened very fast , “ Jochen Dauer explained. “The French changed the rules, we reacted to meet them and they didn´t understand the implications of our response within their rules. It was obvious that they still wanted to push us out as we stood a good chance of winning. They told us we had to run in Group C class rather than GT1 and we told them that we would leave ours cars at home in protest as we had fully complied with their rules.”

“The politicians realized that they had snookered themselves and had to let us run,” Jochen went on. “we went to Le mans and, as expected, a lot of people from the other teams protested, especially after Stuck went out and did a 3 min 56 sec lap in practice. He came in asking in asking for more downforce but we told him that was all he could have within the framework of rules, so he was limited to this best lap time. In fact, only the Courage Group C 962 went faster, but we won the race...”

Street smart

It is quite an education watching the world go by from behind the goldfish-bowl windshield of the Dauer 962LM. The occupants of a VW Golf nearly fell off their seats when we pulled up beside them at a stoplight, pedestrians came close to walking into lamp-posts as they gaped in amazement, and I´m convinced that an old man sitting at a tram stop did himself permanent harm as he craned his head round to follow our progress. The bright yellow Dauer 962 LM simply has that effect on people.

As good as visibility is to the front, this is no shopping car. Over six feet wide, with extremities that are invisible from the driving seat and reward visibility akin to peering out from a mailbox slit, the 962 Le Mans is not a shopping car, the two big wing mirrors, pinched from a Porsche Turbo, give a reasonable view over the rear wings, but reversing into a parking space needs outside help.

That said, the car has its practical points. The clutch and steering are not too heavy, the air conditioning is very effective and thanks to the Motronic engine management system the engine is more than tractable enough for urban driving. If you insist on using it for a weekend away, the rectangular luggage compartment built into the deep and wide left-hand door sill is large enough to take a pair of custom-made carbon-fibre cases. Curse the poor visibility in town if you must, the 962 Le Mans really is a car for the open road. On a deserted autobahn the Dauer is in its element. But a deserted autobahn nowadays means getting up early on a Sunday morning in summer, as post-reunification Germany´s autobahns are more crowded and dangerous than ever with recently unleashed drivers now blundering about in a constant state of awe.

Those who do use the rear mirrors move out of your way instantly when they see the squat yellow form arrowing towards them; head-on, the Dauer has `speed` written all over it in as subtle a way as a brick through a plate glass window. The occupants of cars that have just bolted to the right lane crane their necks in wonder. If they don´t elaborate on their stories too much, their friends might get the impression that they had driven Le Mans this year.

Inside the cozy cabin the noise is immense but this is to be expected with the Sport version of the Dauer 962 LM on which the Le Mans homologation papers were based.

The totally road going version which most wealthy buyers will choose has 50mm-thick foam insulation under the engine cover to help muffle the scream of the twin-turbo Six. It also features the special noise absorbing substance used on the cam gears MAN, these tow measures knock about 8dB off cabin drone. Reinald Mattes may have managed to squeeze two full-sized seats into the 962´s cabin, but they´re practically in each others laps. Even two people of average height and build had better be on good terms if they intend to share this machine. Like most 2-seat racing cars, the drivers sits in the right and the short gearlever falls to hand on the front of the right sill.

I´ve driven road and race 962s before, and like the other cars in my experience, the clutch, accelerator, brakes and steering of Dauer´s version are reasonably weighted, progressive and full of feel. What´s still unresolved is the gearchange, which needs to be handled slowly and deliberately. There were times when I wished for the hugely expensive Porsche PDK clutchless gearbox fitted only to the works 962s.

Memories of driving the Almeras 962C came flooding back as I hammered down the autobahn. It seemed like just yesterday as I floored the throttle in third, the rising scream of the engine and the violent thrust of the torque pinning me back in the already tight seat. Fourth gear and noise starts again, then fifth and I settle in as the speed continues to build. But today, instead of being subjected to violent acceleration and then 3g of braking and 3 g cornering I´m just hurtling towards a fast approaching wall of traffic on a 3-lane autobahn. The speedo is reading 310 km/h (194 mph) when I apply the brakes, the closing speed on the order of 100 mph, just like on the race car, LM´s brakes are phenomenal. The straps off the full-race harness cut into my shoulders as forward momentum turns into heat.

The BMW on the outside lane moves over and I drop two gears and floor the throttle again. Slowing to the pace of traffic for a minute or so has allowed a Porsche 911 Turbo to arrive behind us. I catch a glimpse of its distinctive wide, arched shape in the left-hand mirror and we´re off, the 911´s nose is high in the air as he gives it everything trying to stay in touch. Forget it, boy – you´re about 400 bhp short of the pace.

Still, even with its astounding power, mind boggling handling and eyeball-sucking brakes, if I had one word to sum up the experience of driving the Dauer 962 LM on public roads , that word would be frustrating.

There is just so much more this car can do than any road system in the world will allow – perhaps Le Mans really was the place where Jochen Dauer´s road car belonged at the end.

After all, that´s where it may have began – where do you think Jochen Dauer gets his starting chassis? So important is the history of endurance racing to Dauer that each of the 50 Dauer 962 LM road cars that can be build will be chosen for their competition pedigree. . “There is still one brand new unraced 962 for sale at Porsche.” Jochen Dauer explained, “but from that point of view it will be worth less to a collector purely because it has no history. When you buy a Dauer 962 Le Mans, you also get a folio of specially researched books which detail the history of the 956/962 model, the complete race history with photos of your car and all the practice and race time sheets from every event it took part in.”

Original Equipment

The quest for originality extends further than that. Although Dauer provides the carbon-Kevlar bodyshell and all-new interior, the chassis and engine will be built by the Porsche factory at Weissach and only original Porsche made parts are used on anything mechanical.

Koening Specials were first to come up with a road-going 962, and then Vern Schuppan came along with an extensively reskinned version which bombed when the Japanese financier pulled out. Third in line was the DP Motorsport car, which recently received a new engine from RS Tuning. Dauer Racings´s 962 LM is the latest and probably last car to drive this route towards making the fastest road car around.

At the end of the day, though, Dauer is the only one who received approval from Porsche during the project and factory collaboration after the fact.

The ultimate kudos, of course, arrive in one simple form; this is the road car that won Le Mans. What more do you want?


Nice to read about a 962. They are rare and special. Road-legal ones are even more rare.

[VQ]

Yes it is a beast isn't it?

[chris]

It is indeed.

Not exactly however the easiest way of creating the fastest road-legal standard production car, though.

If you've seen what a original 962C or the older 956C looks like inside, you'll understand that you just can't serve up that sort of interior found in those cars in a road-legal car. The buyers wouldn't accept it. At minimum, you've got to re-trim it, or do as Dauer did and do a totally new interior.

It's simply too rough and barren. It's designed just with getting all the necessary information about pressures, temperatures, turbo boost, engine speed, and road speed to the driver, and to weigh as little as possible.

On the attachment you can see what a customer spec Porsche 962C looked like inside. The works 962C's were always a little better than the customer cars, mostly, since they always got the latest improvements/refinements before the customer teams did.

[chris]

Closer view of the same 962C's interior attached.

As you can obviously see on this one, there is no speedometre. Just temperature and pressure gauges, along with a gauge showing turbo boost (the one just to the left of the tachometre), and of course the tachometre.

These photos illustrate the graphic difference between Jochen Dauer's road-car, and the original race versions. Jochen Dauer's road-car has a much more civilised and acceptable interior.

Dauer's one is probably the best of all the road-legal 962's about. He put the most effort into the project, and got the most professional result.

Willy Koenig's C62 (his 962 for the road) had a bit more power, but lower top speed of somewhere around 370-380km/hr, and Vern Schuppan's car (Schuppan 962CR) did about 345km/hr, but as you read before, financial difficulties put an end to that project, while from what I can understand, DP Racing/Motorsport did little changes to the exterior, but, used a different engine with about 600hp. I can not recall the top speed of the DP Racing 962.

Regardless of type, they all have savagely violent acceleration and massive braking performance.

An original racing version of the 962, in comparison, could have upwards of 800hp, depending on how the engine was tuned. They usually had slightly lower top speeds, with the top speed being traded for gigantic levels of downforce.

Now the downforce was great at high speeds, but, through Karusell corner on the Nurburgring Nordschliefe, it wasn't so good, since the ground effects didn't function well at very low speeds, so the car would jump and bounce through that corner. But once the speed got up above 160km/hr, it was fine again.

That's why in the video link I posted before (the 114mb one) you can see Derek Bell going through some corners at stupidly insane speeds and in complete control, that you'd never replicate in any road-car, since you just don't have that awesome level of grip.

[blackice111288]

i think my favorite porsches are the 944 turbo, the 1996 911 turbo( yes partly cause of NFS-PU:D ) and the new 911 twin turbos. i think their 3.0litre flat six turbo ingines are their best. shoot, i like'em better than ferrari's and lambos v10's and 12's. speakin of exotic supercars, i saw a Vector the other day! it was yellow. i dunno the name of the model, but i know it was one of their newest modeld with a twin turbo v12 wich is super fast. i'll look n see if i can find some specs.

[chris]

Ah, that's the M12..

Powered by a stock Lamborghini 5.7 litre 48 valve V12 with 390kW and 605Nm of torque.

It powered Diablo SV and Diablo VT for a while, before replaced by the magnificent 6.0 litre engine. (405kW, 620Nm). Still a good engine, despite it's age.

[VQ]

Yes but they went under because of the owners of Lamborghini at the time didn't they?

[chris]

Who, Vector?

Vector did have a lot of finance troubles, though that wasn't all to do with their problems. There were some ugly squabbles between management too, I heard.

I'm not sure, but I seem to remember that the Indonesian company that also controlled Lamborghini ended up getting control of Vector, too.

THe man behind Vector apparently had an idea of taking over Lamborghini, at one stage too. We can be absolutely thankful that never happened, and that Audi instead owns it.

Lamborghini needed stability, not another Mycon episode.. And stability is what has happened so far since Dr Franz-Josef Paefgen and his people have taken over. (He since moved to Bentley, I think).

[joesf33]

My X's boss had a 2002 Porsche 911. He traded cars with her (she had a Blazer) because he was going on a road trip.

Sunday morning she let me drive it after teasing me all week.

O M G

If you applied ANY pressure to the pedal you would launch. And the handling, was just, theres nothing to describe it. No matter how hard I pushed it, it held in. 0-100 ... I didnt time it because I sure as hell didnt want to take my eyes off the road but No Time At All.

Then when we got to where we were going I told her that she had filled one of my childhood dreams. She proceeded to take the keys and scold me "Oh, So I can't fulfill your dreams but if I have a Porsche I can?!??!"

Never got to drive the car again... About a month or so later, never talked to her again...

[scarabe]

Good day;

The fastest car I've ever driven is my 1990 Mustang LX 3 door (with handling package). I bought the car new, which means I've had it 13 years now. Stock it had 225 hp and 300ftlb torque, with the modifications I've done over the years, I figure that it now has approximately 280 hp and 350 ftlb torque. The fastest I've ever driven was 242 Km/hr, I won't be doing that again, even in a straight line, it was one scary experience, realizing that a minor error could easily result in instant death. Next winter it is going in the body shop for repairs (rust) and fresh paint, about $4000 canadian ( $3000 US ). The milage is 217,000 Km, the original engine still runs like a charm.

See you in the pits;
Denis (Scarabe):elk:

[Radical-Al]

speaking of Vector, I've seen an Authentic M-12, it was in 1996 and I think I was going to school. It was a gold one (basically like in all the google search results ;)) and I only saw it twice, shame I wasn't into taking pics, that didn't start until around 3-4 years later, bummer. Their head quarters were around 30 or 40 miles away from where I lived... one of my dreams (out of a lot, but recently I've filled in a lot of cool cars) is to see a W-8... some may think its ugly, but I want to see it in the near future or future.

[blackice111288]

amazining news: a super fast civic with no crazy body kit or sound system! a street legal 8 SECOND CIVIC HATCHBACK WITH 500 HORSES TO THE REAR WHEELS!!!!!!!!!!! is that a eye opener or what!?

[VQ]

Umm, a Honda Civic with RWD? Didn't know that was possible, but if u have a commodore V8, stick on a Vortech supercharger for about 10 grand or less with an intercooler and you have 500 Flywheel Horespoer without ne other mods! Work on the heads a bit and the exaust, maybe the thrtlle body, and you have 500 RWHP under $15,000 Australian!

[blackice111288]

RWD Civic- yeah, its possible, but rare. id like to see what transmission and axles and crap hes using cause i aint never seen a aftermarket rwd kit for a civic and to my knowledge they dont exist. i know u dont care much for japanese cars, but u gotta admit that tha nu impreza wrx Sti if of tha hook. 2.5liter turbo-4cyl, 255horses to the wheels (300 @ the flywheel) and 260ft/lbs to the wheels(300 to the fly) it comes with 3 LSD's- one in tha front, middle, and back. 1/4 mile in 13.1 seconds. step on the gas and wheelspin becomes its middle name!