Congratulations America!

[alan-b'stard]

I stayed up all night to watch and feel really happy for you guys. :)

It's going to be a struggle and the right will obviously attack once they have stopped gnashing their teeth.

Now Americans can feel secure in London and around the world as tourists rather than invaders. Our respect has to grow as wrongs are hopefully put right.

:beer:

[alan-b'stard]

Sorry, i couldn't resist this one :blush:

The Times They Are A-Changin'

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

[KyzrSoze]

I have heard rumblings of happiness from europe and the middle east about the election, but I havent heard anyone espouse an opinion about what makes them happy. What is it exactly?

[alan-b'stard]

I think it means hope. Hope that America changes and becomes a part of the world in a real sense. No more gung ho, more inclusive, prepared to listen and prepared to co-operate to make the world better. Heal the wounds. Also to make things better for ordinary Americans, because they deserve better, like a health service for instance, things we take for granted. More for the poor majority less for the rich minority.

Whether that happens is still in the air. But it is up to Obama supporters to make it so, or we are back to plan A, revolution, and the struggle continues. But the struggle with never die anyway. I never thought you would have even a chance of plan B. But thanks to ordinary Americans in their millions we have plan B. I respect America for the first time ever. Good luck to you. You deserve some luck and some respect.

Now let's end these awful wars and instate peace and dialogue.

:beer:

[Commander]

You mean the United States, not "America" right? :?

[alan-b'stard]

Hehe Commander. Yeah I mean South of the border. You're right, that is a bab habit for Europeans. You already have health care and are quite liked around the world. ^_^

[alan-b'stard]

Ok. Obama faces a big fight.

On the one hand he has the young and the bright on his side. On the other he has big business wooing him now he is number one. Who does he side with? At first it will be his supporters but gradually he will side with his 'other supporters' the right wing and big business. He may get out of Iraq, but he will continue the futile battle of Afghanistan.

This land as I said when 'we' first went in, will not be beaten by a western army. The Russians went down and so will we. It is a death zone for all us all and has been for thousands of years. You think you have won, then it starts over. Even Iraq should prove that some battles cannot be won. Fight for a hundred years and you will still lose. I remember victory being declared in both wars years ago. Do you? But is victory any closer? You tell me. Shall we dig out those old debates? Remember turning Iraq into glass for instance?

At home he has to battle recession maybe depression. People want justice and the truth and maybe jail terms for the capitalists that led us to this point in history. Will he do that? Find the guilty and stop any future crimes against the people? Unlikely. They will be helped and the people will not be helped. That is the nature of capitalism. It is for the people to feed the rich, not the rich to feed the people. That is a given rule of the system. If you get that rule you get it all.

So, good luck USA! Good luck to us all, Canada too. ;)

[alan-b'stard]

So the G20 have met at last and what do they propose? co-operation rather than competition, fighting global warming with new energy initiatives, developing mixed economies rather than all out capitalism and openess and transparency of those markets with regulatory powers. The bull has been tethered at last.

I had to slap myself to make sure I was awake! 8)~ :beer:

[alan-b'stard]

Tonight on the BBC I watched a staggering prophesy about the USA:

This World: American Time Bomb

Is America facing an even greater threat to its economy than the meltdown of its banking system? David Walker, the former Comptroller General of the United States believes that his country is about to drown in an ocean of debt. He's so concerned that he quit his job to raise public awareness on the issue. He believes his message to be the financial equivalent of former president Al Gore's warning about the environment, An Inconvenient Truth.

The statistics are staggering, with the US Government debt running at more than ten trillion dollars (actually 54 trillion dollars when all debts and future commitments like social security/pensions are added, which amounts to $175,000 per person) and set to rise and rise unless policy changes. And with many people urging new President Barack Obama to spend his way out of recession, it may be that the underlying weakness of the American economy can only get worse.

The USA is in massive debt to the world, mainly down to George Bush's handling of affairs [sic]. Of course Obama will probably get the blame when the crap hits the fan, as it must. Like global warming it is probably too late to stop the bad news coming for future generations.

I don't know if you can watch this abroad but just in case I give the link.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00fvwdt

[Justin Martin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

According to Wikipedia, (with the usual caveat that it's not always trustworthy) we're not doing that bad compared to European countries. Our external debt per capita is $42k, while in England it's $190k. The $42k presumably only includes current debt, and not social security.

That said, I've been complaining about the "cut taxes while increasing spending" fiscal policies of Bush for years, so you won't get too much of an argument from me...

[alan-b'stard]

I think what we need to consider here is trade defecit and public debt. It is actually worse than the programme said according to these figures. Whatever, they are close to the ones I mentioned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

[alan-b'stard]

BTW, this is not a point scoring exercise,nation over nation. We are all in the same boat. Who sinks first is the only doubt because when one goes we all get dragged down.

The programme last night summed up our problem, nobody understands economics it seems (not only the so called experts). They went on 'main street' and asked simple questions of the public, like what does defecit mean? Where does the government borrow from? Hardly anyone knew. What is our trade defecit? People answered in millions or billions and some thought everything was just fine. Hardly anyone questioned had savings. Almost all had credit cards and lived month to month. All were shocked when told the truth about the debt.

This comes back to my other thread about how we THINK we are informed. Our media have done their job too well, the 'general public' in the west know very little about the real world, have never had a rainy day in their memory and have sleep walked into disaster.

For us it is going to be bad. For the poor of the world it is going to be deadly. Anyone angry yet?

[golos]

So the G20 have met at last and what do they propose? co-operation rather than competition, fighting global warming with new energy initiatives, developing mixed economies rather than all out capitalism and openess and transparency of those markets with regulatory powers. The bull has been tethered at last.

I had to slap myself to make sure I was awake! 8)~ :beer:

You mean this could be the beggining of the socialist world you are always whining about????????????????

Moron :rolleyes:

[alan-b'stard]

I doubt it is the start of a socialist world quite yet. i think it could be the beginning of the end of the old world economic system. This is small fry really but to admit that the system is deeply flawed is great to hear from the horses mouth.

The rich are once again coming cap in hand to get hold of the peoples' money to survive. We own a majority of the banks and now industry is knocking at the door (General motors etc). Our money is kept in their trust (government) and it looks like it will be given away to keep capitalism alive. Whatever happened to survival of the fitessed and other capitalist ideas? we have had the earthquake, watch out for the tsuniami, anything is possible now. Obama is maybe your last hope... Capitalism always needed public money to survive, this is nothing new, but the cracks are beginning to show.

:Peace::HB:

ps.

Two stories dominated the headlines this week, Mumbai and Thailand. The Thai's show the way forward. Their tactics won the day, similar tactics can win the world. Or we can bow to the 'masters of the universe' once again and live under their corrupt and deadly system.

------------------------------
After a multi-week standoff with thousands of protesters in Bangkok stranded over 100,000 travelers by occupying the capital’s airports, what the protesters had been calling the “last battle” to oust the government of Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat has ended in success. Today, Thailand’s Constitutional Court has ordered Thailand’s Ruling People’s Power Party disbanded over electoral fraud.

The ruling spells the end of not just the end of Thailand’s current government, but likely also the political career of Minister Somchai, who is now banned from politics for the next five years over the ruling. The announcement was met by raucous cheers from the protesters, and passenger flights from Suvarnabhumi international airport are expected to resume tomorrow.

The move spells an end, at least in the near term, to several months of protests against the Somchai government. The post-coup government was seen by the protesters as a continuation of ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra (Somchai’s brother in law). Both governments were seen as wildly corrupt in the city, but were popular among the rural population of Thailand. Whether the next Thai government will be any more palatable to the protesters than the previous ones remains to be seen.

[alan-b'stard]

I only had a few minutes to reply this morning due to having to go to work and I would like to expand on the Thai/Mumbai thing.

The Thai's hit the system where it really hurts, right between the pockets. :D What could the government do? Send in troops to shoot them and beat them up? Once upon a time they could do that and get away with it. Not any more. That is what you call progress. They are more afraid to shoot at protesters now than ever before. They know if they do, what they once did without hesitation, in front of the worlds press and local press then anything might happen. The backlash could be worse than the present crisis for them. So people power is very real and is in reality the only thing they (our rulers) are scared of, in fact, terrified of.

Now compare that to Mumbai. 10 people armed with guns indiscriminately killing hundreds of innocent people. Our rulers and the press loved every minute of it! This was real drama played out in real time and there could only ever be one winner, our rulers. They don't care about people dying or damage to property. But the political gains they make are huge. Now they can lay another level of 'security' to 'protect' us. The press had a field day and at times I thought they were actually having an orgasm of joy and they could forget the economy for a few days. It made me feel quite sick listening to them.

Wake up people... =[