home cinema / multisound-system, need advice

[FIATLOVE]

I plan to buy a soundsystem for the livingroom to play all music, film, pics and stuff via surround speaker system.
I already bought a Pioneer DVD recorder model DVR 530H, I maybe go for a Denon recivier/amplifier and some speakers from Dali (danish).

Whatr more do I need???
All I got of cables so far is a goldlayer scart cable, can you give me some tips of more gears I need?

I need advice and tips from people who got experience using and owning home-cinema systems to help me plan build a proper solution. It would be cool to add a pc to it all too, so called multimedia pc.

I want a subwoofer that is not big as a house so I can hide it away into the tv-wallconsole maybe, IMO all subs looks so huge, e.g 35/29,5/26 cm (H/W/D). I can accept to build up the speakersystem from scratch piece by piece to avoid a huge wooferbox, I don't want plastic-speaker housing (like el-mart systems do have, Sony, Panasonic and all the other large brands..), I want quality and wood (or alu or concrete)...

Any tips?


Mads

[Chaul]

You need to estimate how much wiring you need for the speakers and are you going for a 5.1 or even 7.1 system. That is, the subwoofer plus 5/7 speakers. It can add up if you want to hide the wiring in the corners of the room.. The wires I used had 2 leads and the speakers and the amp had those "screw-in" connectors whatever you call them.. Some high-end speakers could also have double connectors, anyways. The subwoofer is usually connected with a standard mono plug cable though..

The subwoofers are big because the speaker elements are huge 8" to 12" or even more and can have their own amplifier built in. The bigger the element the bigger the casing - at least in traditional speakers. Technology is going forward with different designs coming out though.. My subwoofer is a weak 70 W active one with an 8 inch element. The subwoofer is a specialized element for playing sounds sub 100Hz and the DVDs usually only have that channel going during effects (indicated by a small led in my amp). But since my front speakers are also kinda weak I have the subwoofer on for music too. You can set it all up in the amplifier.. Sure, some people sacrifice a basement for bass production alone, but that's crazy imho, lol. The good floor standing speakers are effective enough to produce good bass rich sound even without the subwoofer though..

Now, if you want a multimedia PC or HTPC as it is also called. You can go for a Microsoft solution or try to build it on Linux. You could also take an old computer and modify it for HTPC use. Basically you need the software and hardware for a remote controller (and IR receiver) too. You also need TV out (analog composite, S-Video, DVI, HDMI.. depends on your TV what you can use). Then, of course, do you need analog reception or are you going straight for digital TV. Note that, analog will be cancelled by 2007 in Finland for example. But the good thing about HTPC is that you can expand it to receive whatever you want. On audio... you could have the HTPC connected to the amplifier by an optical/coaxial digital line, or have the speakers connected to the HTPC directly just like in any other PC. My experiments are still limited on the coaxial solution - I got no sound yet :(. The casing may be the biggest problem in this because most cases just don't fit in a living room environment. That is, if it bothers you.. otherwise it's not a problem, heh. Oh! You could also install a DVD player/burner inside the HTPC.. Personally I went for the Linux path, and since I already got a DVD player and the licenses are a little bit awkward in Linux for DVD playing, I decided to go with the external player anyways.. I have a LAN connection on the system, so I should be able to control the timings and everything remotely too. :)

I can't really say much about which brand to go for in general.. Look at the specs of the speakers and hope that you get a system that sounds good together. Meet with a few sellers at audio stores and ask them stuff and for the possibility to listen to different speakers/setups. When I was selecting speakers I was hoping to get speakers that sound good at a low sound volume too, not having to crank it up, you know. I don't think I quite got that, but at least the sound quality is ok while not bothering the neighbours. And I went for a speaker _set_ which apparently was a definite no-no among hifists, lol. The speakers are tested for quality etc and the quality class is printed on the casing. I'm not sure what this means but I got a mixed set of A,B and C class speakers.. eheh. 5.1 setup with the front speakers slightly bigger than the ones at the back since the amplifier puts out more power to the front at the 2.1 channel setting than compared to the 5.1 one.

This is a dangerous hobby.. You can build one setup, only to find out later that this and that part need improvement and the "better" cost several times more than the setup you went for in the beginning. ;)

Tuukka

[KyzrSoze]

As you shop for components, check out this website for reviews of the items that you are considering audioreview.com (http://www.audioreview.com/reviewscrx.aspx). The reviews there tend to be by audiophiles who are much more picky than us, so you will likely get more info than you need or care about. :)

[chris]

If you wanted to try a HTPC, definately go for AMD Athlon 64, it runs cooler than Intel P4. But it may also be worth the effort to try and build something based on the Intel Core / Core Duo processor.

If you wanted really upmarket speakers, maybe try something from Bose, Bang & Olufssen or one of those other boutique brands. But to be really honest, your average Sony/Panasonic/etc system will deliver great sound at a reasonable price. If you can get a wireless system, you'll have more flexibility in positioning the speakers, and you won't need to worry about hideous cables running between the speakers. It'll also be easy to set up, plus they can be easily moved if you want to clean around them.

So I'd say if you can live without wood or aluminium casing, you might find wireless a handy benefit.

[Myshkin]

For what it is worth, I have heard so-called self-appointed "audiophiles" say that Bose is overrated, that you don't get much for too much money and that Bose's success is due to their PR department more than their speakers. They sound fine to me, but a) I am half-deaf, and b) they are pretty expensive, so there you go.

I bought the cheapest Shure earphones (E2c) for my MP3 player and I thought they were pretty awesome, until one of those pesky audiophiles came along and informed me that I was ignorant and mistaken. Like I would know the difference, I can't even hear my cell phone ring if it is in the other room. And don't get them started on compression rates for ripping music... I laughed when I read an article that brought together a bunch of those people and tested to see if they could tell the difference between the compression rates and formats. While they were able to pick out the lowest compression rate, most of them could not distinguish the higher ones unless they were intimate with the music.

Oops did I hijack your thread again? Sorry :blush: I've been doing that a lot lately.

[VulcanB2]

Hi,

I've got a Marantz SR5200 surround sound amp (6.1 Ch) with a bit of a mixture of speakers (e.g.: Fronts: Kef 15.2, Front center: Mission M7C2, Rear: Kef 15.2 (again), Rear center: Mission C7C1, Sub: Mission M70as).

I've also got a Sony Super Audio CD Player (5.1 channel) SCD-XB770 and a Pure DAB Digital Radio and that lot together is rather damn nice!! Not cheap, but then I couldn't justify spending about 3 times as much on a B&O system. &(

Regarding makes/models of things - if you can, get an in-house demo and go with what sounds the best to YOU. Everyone has their own idea of what audio should sound like, so check out what is well-built rather than what is "the best" in terms of a name/model. That is what I did, hence the mixed system.

I was told by a few people that all speakers must match exactly, but I found that didn't work for me. The system sounds great, and movies are :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: - you sound as if you are there!! :eek:

:cool: :cool: :cool:

I hope that helps! Over here we have a thing called "What Hi-Fi". Not sure if you have anything like that, but check it out for ideas, if nothing else. It will get your mind running over what you want out of your system.

Above all - get demos. Can't beat listening to the system you will be eventually buying! You can mix/match away until you find the config that suits you. Just be aware that the choice of amp can limit the choice of speakers (e.g. output power). My amp is 630W (truely 90W per channel), BUT the speakers are ALL rated to AT LEAST 100W, so I can't blow them up. It also means I go deaf before the audio output distorts, so it sounds clear regardless of how loud I choose to have it. :D

Have fun!

Best regards,
Robin.

[FIATLOVE]

Great responses thank you alot!

It's abit time before I invest in this new stereo stuff tho I really want to get some into the new era this cinema-surround stuff is for me.

Last thing on list is the stereo/tv section upgrades because the new home really licks my wallet (I have planned this along so I'm not in any crise), but I will buy the most important stuff first, and tv+sound is not important as long I have still a great PC sound system + the most important; I do have the carstereo :-))


Please keep on gimme inputs I really need it.


Mads

If I want to record my LP-records, do I need something special becide a inline for LP-player (digital converter) in the recevier? (I do have ca. 250 LP records of great quality wich I don't have these titles on CD or other media (yet).

[VulcanB2]

Hi,

Again, this is subjective, but I think the Creative Audigy(insert number here) cards are pretty good! I see they've released the Audigy 4 now.

If you plan on running Linux, check hardware compatibility for the distro you are considering - drivers can be a bit sporadic, especially with regards to the newer hardware.

Best regards,
Robin.

[FIATLOVE]

I'm a former MCSE so I guess I go for MS ;-).

It seems I have to read about this topic to learn how to add a pc to this system, I do have a pc with HUGE amount of power and with dual tv-cards, this PC is my gaming pc so I won't use it for both purposes at same time..

I will at most spend money like DALI speakers or maybe as much as B&W speakers set, I am also willing to build sparate speakers, even studio-monitor speakers if needed (after consulting some music/filmproducing friends of me)

[Chaul]

You may need something - a "stereo phono pre-amplifier" box or something like that for the (old) LP player before connecting it to the amplifier. Anyways, that's what reads on the box I had to get..

The front center speaker is important because that's where most of the dialogue is coming from. But the 4 satellites, I think, should be identical (these days). At first the rear speakers and the subwoofer channel was only really used for effects, so we had these speaker kits with twice as big front speakers than the rear. Now, especially with the 7.1 kits, I assume this is changing and they put 6 identic satellites in those these days.

[chris]

I'm a former MCSE so I guess I go for MS ;-).

It seems I have to read about this topic to learn how to add a pc to this system, I do have a pc with HUGE amount of power and with dual tv-cards, this PC is my gaming pc so I won't use it for both purposes at same time..

I will at most spend money like DALI speakers or maybe as much as B&W speakers set, I am also willing to build sparate speakers, even studio-monitor speakers if needed (after consulting some music/filmproducing friends of me)

Okay, for a HTPC, go for something like this:

- Athlon 64
- Heat-pipe style CPU cooler with a large (120mm) and slow fan
- a lower end ATI or Nvidia graphics card with low heat/noise
- Antec P180 case, with all the fans (3x 120mm) turned down to medium or low if the cooling is fine. (and it might be in cool Norway).
- Use a notebook PC hard-disk drive for lower heat output and quietness.
- Get a quality sound-card like what VulcanB2 recommended
- Get a quality DVD-RW drive.

That'll be a fairly large PC, but it should be quiet and have good cooling.

[Chaul]

The Antec is fine, but if you were obsessed in getting something that looks like a hifi equipment and fits the living room (like me) there are specific HTPC cases available. Manufacturers like SilverStone, Dign, Sharkoon (and CoolerMaster) have come up with desktop cases that resemble the other equipment you might have in the living room and some of them even come with an LCD screen. But the downside for you might be the lack of space (2 or 3 pci cards) evident in some of the smaller cases, possibly non-standard setup (desktop form factor) and slightly higher price than an average ATX tower.

Some of the standard 3.5" HDD's are already quiet.. some come close to the notebook drives noise levels but not quite... (at the expense of storage space) http://www.silentpcreview.com/article29-page2.html (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article29-page2.html)

[FIATLOVE]

B&W M-1 2ways front, center and rear speakers (i maybe upgrade with some BW 600 front wall speakers and use the front M1 as sidespeakers later if needed wich I really doubt regarding the sub hehe), B&W AS2 sub, Denon AVR 3806 (7x130 REAL watts with rds radio, and alot more goodies e.g integrated lp-player digital converter) and a Pioneer DVR-530H is the choice and I guess it's enough for my small new livingroom.
But when watching films it could be cool with 7.1, and when playing music it could be cool with some grunch in the front's

So far looking very good, my bankaccount is not :-O


I haven't wired it yet, still reading manuals hehehehe.

[FIATLOVE]

And my gaming pc is more than good enough to connect as a "central" so I save my money for some 600's, or some curtains, or maybe a bucket to put the umberellas into :-)))


Take care!

[FIATLOVE]

Soon done all the wiringjob now, well I need tip regarding external fan for the amplifier (it's into a closet and needs airflow), this amplifier does have 2 alternatives for ext-fan; 1 is a minijack 12V output then the 2nd. choice is 220V output.
Any tips for a 80-120 mm fan to mount into the closet?

I can BI-AMP the frontspeakers if I want to using 2 front-channels at the ampf together, is this needed using the B&W M-1 frontspeakers???


Braggin: B&W sent me a Parker pen and a ty letter for registering the serial #'s :-))

[FIATLOVE]

I did put the rear-speakers wiring up onto the roof cus there was some profiles in my roof allowed wiring to fit into it :-) ( this avoided alot of wiring mess along the floors).
If I decide to build a 7.1 system, the only visible wiring will be the mid speakers when dragging them into positioning on floor when playing movies.
I cannot decide if I need 7.1 over the now 5.1 system, that I have to test in real.
The sub is large enough to make it base for a flowertable or so, wow! :-), now standing on rubberspikes for transport, gonna mount on the real spikes and spikes-bases very soon :-)))

[chris]

Soon done all the wiringjob now, well I need tip regarding external fan for the amplifier (it's into a closet and needs airflow), this amplifier does have 2 alternatives for ext-fan; 1 is a minijack 12V output then the 2nd. choice is 220V output.
Any tips for a 80-120 mm fan to mount into the closet?

I can BI-AMP the frontspeakers if I want to using 2 front-channels at the ampf together, is this needed using the B&W M-1 frontspeakers???


Braggin: B&W sent me a Parker pen and a ty letter for registering the serial #'s :-))

Nice. I've got a couple of those, a pen and pencil matching set. They are over 7 years old now - still working perfect.

As for a fan, just try the biggest thing with the greatest air-flow you can find.

[[XR]Pale]

Bowers and Wilkins... Aren't you the man! LOL Here I am stuck with these lowly Paradigm Speakers...

[FIATLOVE]

:-) Matthew, it's only the M-1 B&W speakers with AS2 sub woofer, tho it play alot better than my old stereo :-)
Had it up running a few weeks now, it will take me years to configure and programing all remotes into the superb Denon remote control.

Right now I completed the installation of the closet-fan (including a temp-guard, and a alu-tube profile in the closet to "guide" the hot air onto the fan). WHEW
I had to build the fan and the tempguard together from 2 pieces, the fan is of course brushless :-)) I also build a fanplatform to fit at the backside of the closet, with silicon damping between wood and aluplates to reduce vibrations. (wow it's so cool to handbuild things, i love it :-))
But now it's working very fine, last weeks I had to use an external tablefan to cool down the closet that included doors to stand open...

Now it looks and works perfect! (only some powerwiring left to complete a clean look inside closet)


Playing Peter Gabriel world music at very HI-VOLUMES :-)

Regarding 5.1 and 7.1 systems; the guy at HIFI-klubben (my shop) told me you need a very large room to have need for 7.1 systems, he said 5.1 will do for most of ordinary livingrooms. All systems down at HIFI-klubben store is setup as 5.1, included all the 50K (usd) systems...

Now I just need to test connecting a pc to the new tv-monitor (wich has to be included to complete the new hifi system...), a 8ms 32" Samsung :-)

Now I'm BROKE BROKE BROKE but dang how nice it looks and sounds :-O
The first DVD I tried at the new tv was Pink Floyd "live at Pompeii" made in 1972 and I have never seen a crystal clear picture like that before on a telly (yes im using component and HDMI cables), I wonder how a new HDTV DVD will look and sound like :-)
I'm so pleased! (the pic is one thing, but the sound... weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee)
The ampf even have 2 extra channels for speakers, so I can (when I can afford it) mount a pair of speakers at backwall behind the cockpit, to have real cool music or radio (or tv) sound while racing. If i think my 5.1 pc sounds nice, well this new stereo is another class of sound :-))

Now I just have to learn how to manage the room-configuration of speakers from pre-setup, I can now adjust the sound to point at where exactly in the room I am sitting... (the manual is large as a bible)
Before I have started learn this, wow this sounds GREAT!

[Glottis]

Don't you just love bragging...

:D

Congrats Madsy on this great purchase! :)

Tony.

[Chaul]

Sounds like you got a smart salesman. It does make sense to invest in quality components in 5.1 instead of 7.1 for the same amount of money. :)

The HDMI thing is new to me. I mean I have not even seen one but apparently that's the direction we are going.

Congratulations on your new "toy". lol

Tuukka

[FIATLOVE]

The hd recorder can't even ake HDMI so I using compoment cables from thatone to ampf, but the ampf does have converters (all mass) to make that playh OK.
Tony, bragging, yea I am, for decades I have wished to have speakers like B&W, for a sound lover like me this is heaven :-), maaaaan this is so neat!

In IPL alot ppl LOL at me when I told them I like listen to Madonna. Well I think she is a great way to measure peaks in my stereo-sound.
i learned that with my car stereo.... I guess reason why I like Madonna (as a off-trend "pause" from al other music (listening to Frank Zappa makes you sometimes wanna pause with some easy listening..), without being nonsense music..) (yes she makes easy listening music, tho IMO this is great sound, and she makes good moodes.
Mostly I like listen to jazz, rock, reggae, and more, so she is only a addon-easy-music, tho with IMO great sounds and moods used, and some of trhe very best synthezeiser sounds used in modern time!!!..

Well I need a intake fan mounted to this system, to make the fanjob faster, the temp controller has a 2 minutes delay, so I wanna faster inflow of air to make fanjob times shorter.
This is millimeter picking and it will cost me 15 usd extra, but heck I want perfection, when I can get it this easy :-)...

Before, in my car I did think I had a perfect soundsystem, but this B&W makes me notice alot new sounds in the music.
It's hard to explain, you have to hear it.

Man I am happy!!!

And guys, just LO about Madonna as much you want, now I am playing "Strictly Commercial"
Hehehehhehehe :-) Frank Zappa

[NFSracer]

Or if you want build your own htpc in whatever you want. I'm making progress on my htpc. I had it running in a pile before i started putting it in a case. And it works great. You don't need the newest stuff. Mines got a 1Ghz amd duron, 256 ram, 128mb geforce4 with composite and s-video. Looking to get a tv tuner card in the near future for recording.

I bought myself a pioneer 750w system and i'm extremely happy with it. I would like to get a new sub for it with alittle more power, but i'm also abit of a bass freak. Just because it's expensive doesn't mean it's the best! It's your opinion that counts in the end! :D

[FIATLOVE]

Joe's Garage...... :-)):Peace: :wave: :HB: :)

[FIATLOVE]

Regarding setting >Sub woofer volumes; it shall not be "heard", only when you turn the SUB off you shall hear something missing to music... (this has sometimes to be adjusted regarding what kind of music you are playing).
The SUB needs to be fitted to the room youre in, that means watts in the active Sub..
I did take the midrange Sub woofer for this M-1 speakers set (snailhouse sub was abit to expensive for me and abit overkil to my room) , still I only use max 30% volumes on the sub no matter how i configure it...

[FIATLOVE]

The muffin man is seated at the ytable at the labarotory of the utility muffin research kithcen.
Reaching for an oversize chrome spoon he gathers an intemite quantity of dried muffin remants. (this is how far i can go translate this text atm...)

welll..... He turns to us and speaks; Some people like cupcakes better, I'm for one care less for them....
(from now the translations and spellings getting abit hard for me..)



(this is for me some of the very best music I can hear, Muffin Man by Frank Zappa)



Mads

[FIATLOVE]

2 monts later;

now the Ampf is getting adjusted to the room, rock (all kinds) jazz and classics sounds fine now, even on television. If you LOL before about Madonna, tonite I saw a tv-article of ABBA, wow!!! :-)))

Right now, the man in black is playing me into a very humble mood ;-)

In difference to virtual pleasure I'm reading the book about Johnny Cash these days (by Steve Turner), I do recommend it strongly!


Yippiii Ya Yeaaaaaa, Jippyyy Ya Jooooooooooooooooooooooo
Ghost riders in the sky! :-)