Phaeton - no longer to be sold in USA

[chris]

As of next year, the VW Phaeton will no longer be sold in USA. The car has had rapidly dwindling sales. It's a case of great car, with the wrong badge.

It seems pretty obvious that you can sell any old rubbish to anyone, just put a Mercedes Benz or BMW badge on it and people will buy it regardless. :rolleyes: (hence the popularity of the old ML-Class and the E65 BMW 7 series).

VW will continue to sell Phaeton in Europe where sales are up by 23%. And fortunately, the close relationship between Phaeton and the Bentley Continental GT (both are closely related) also works in favour of the big Phaeton.

[VQ]

That's a shame that most people are blinded by badge snobbery (then again, I wouldn't ever touch a BMW or Merc and go for an Audi or VW in that range....

[KyzrSoze]

It cant all be laid off on brand snobbery.

For one thing the car weighs 5038 lbs. and only has 335 HP.

One of my customers bought a gray one for his wife last year, but traded it for a Lexus LS430 after she complained of the harsh ride. My only criticism is that that a car costing $70k should look the part. If I were in the market I would not pay that much for a giant Passat/Jetta. It should have been brought to market with a new styling direction either exclusive to itself or for the rest of the model line to follow in later years.

This is VWs fault.

[chris]

IMO it does look the part, the exterior is easy on the eye, and the interior is very nice.

But these days to look the part, you've got to have ugly Dame Edna headlights, and ugly bustle boots and other such things. :rolleyes: The 7 series is terrible in comparison. Buyers often didn't like it, and even held on to their old E38's instead of trading up to the E65 7 Series.

The Phaeton is a proper German luxury car, it feels solid, not flimsy. It's a better car than a Mercedes, BMW or a Lexus, with better engines too (like a 5.0L V10 TDI).

The problem with a Lexus is that it is essentially a bigger, and very costly Toyota Corolla. That's what they feel like. They are beautifully finished and run faultlessly, but they are really very clinical.

[VQ]

The problem with Toyota's is they are all boring cars to drive, The Phateon is a very lovely looking car, taking a lot of Audi styling cues, and the A8 is arguably the best looking sedan in the world.

[KyzrSoze]

I agree on the A8. It is a nice car. The only scary feature is the aluminum bodywork which can be delicate and pricey to repair.

The VW is not by any means an ugly car, just a little plain to my eyes, and a bit too familiar. The reality is that people buying in this class can afford to be picky. What are they being picky about? It can’t be features – the VW is loaded with cool stuff. The interior is beautiful. Exterior styling is a big part of it.

Here are a few excerpts from a luxury car comparison test that I read back in late 2003.

The good

“The interior is magnificent. So much honey-colored wood burl so artistically shaped! We can't decide which we like best: sitting up front close to the action as the motorized wood-grain shutters majestically swing up to reveal the dashboard vents, or lounging in back for proper perspective on the long, curving sweeps of furniture along the flanks.”

“On the skidpad, the VW actually outperforms the Audi A8 by a tick, darn good considering its four-season tires.”

The bad

“The small gauges can't convey their information at a quick glance. Flush buttons, even large ones, are tricky to find by feel alone. The Phaeton scored behind all but the BMW
for ergonomics.”

“The Phaeton is a lot of VW, 5028 pounds' worth. Never mind that it issues from the same corporate loins as the Audi A8L and shares the same aluminum V-8—this is a steel car. Add to that 4MOTION, and the scales groan.”

“By a wide margin, we disliked the steering. It's light, which is okay if the effort builds in proportion to cornering forces. It doesn't. So you need to sandpaper your fingertips like a safecracker to feel what's happening.”

“Another surprise: The ride is quite harsh, and the body jiggles after impacts. We couldn't love the seats, either. The adjustment controls in front are complex, rather like first-class on British Airways, but not all of us could find a sweet spot. In back, the seat itself is okay, but the seemingly vast legroom narrows to the Strait of Hormuz on the size-12 Reeboks. Plus, the ride is even shakier back there.”

In this test the VW finished 5th of 6, ahead of the Mercedes S430.

[KyzrSoze]

Wow, I had not paid attention for a while, but I just broke the 1000 mark on posts. :)

[FeZ]

I think they have to stop selling the v10 TDI in some countries in the EU as it is a horrible polluter and there is no space (???) for a particle filter.

The also offer a smaller V6 TDI which is just a joke on this heavy car.

The people that can afford the car wont buy it because it is just a peoples car (Volkswagen), and the people cannot afford the car as it is way to expensive for the ordinary people. A marketing nightmare :D

[KyzrSoze]

The people that can afford the car wont buy it because it is just a peoples car (Volkswagen), and the people cannot afford the car as it is way to expensive for the ordinary people. A marketing nightmare

Yes, I can imagine that marketing the car is difficult task. The trick will be to build a following and heritage for the car over time, something that the other players at this altitude already have. If sales in europe continue to increase the car stands a fighting chance for the long haul.

In the USA, it seems that most VW customers are those who view the purchase as the inexpensive way to own a german engineered car. They buy with the idea that "someday I will be able to afford a BMW or a Mercedes". BMW buyers in contrast buy a 3 series with the hope of owning a 5 or 7 series someday, and Merc buyers go with a C class until a E or S class is within reach. That is what VW needs to foster with its customers - buy a Golf now and one day the Phaeton will be possible - but that is something that comes over time.

[KyzrSoze]

A telling side note: I did a search for used cars online, and It is possible to buy a used 2004 Phaeton in the US for as little as $42K. That is for a car with 20K or so miles on the odo.

[Justin Martin]

The problem with Toyota's is they are all boring cars to drive
Really? What about the Celica, MR2 and Supra? I have a cousin who restores Lotuses, and he made the comment once that some of his Lotus friends drive Mk1 MR2's as daily drivers because amongst cheap, reliable cars, they're the closest you can get to a Lotus Europa. Comparing a car to a Europa is about the highest praise that I know of for a lightweight sports car....

Then you have the AWD Celicas, which over a decade ago were comperable to the current R32. And don't forget the Supras, the closest thing to a muscle car that Japan has built.

What's VW offered that's fun to drive? The Mk1 GTI and the R32's certainly are, but all other GTI's are overweight, overpriced, underperforming cars that sell purely based on the GTI badge. There's also the old Scirocco/Corrado, but they were never were any better than the fwd Celicas, and certainly couldn't hold a candle to the AWD Celicas.

Other than those, VW's are pretty much uber-yawn cars. Hardly any more interesting than a ordinary Toyota, and more expensive and less reliable to boot.



I agree with Kyzr on the Phaeton's styling, it's a box that's about two curves away from being a Toyota/Scion xB. And with the approx. 50cm diameter grille/trunk badges, it's hard to make a case for "restrained elegance", either.

Proper luxury car styling, IMHO, is the current Jaguar XJ's, Bentley's, and Maserati's. Extremely distinctive without a hint of tacky.

[Nappe1]

I think they have to stop selling the v10 TDI in some countries in the EU as it is a horrible polluter and there is no space (???) for a particle filter.

The also offer a smaller V6 TDI which is just a joke on this heavy car.

The people that can afford the car wont buy it because it is just a peoples car (Volkswagen), and the people cannot afford the car as it is way to expensive for the ordinary people. A marketing nightmare :D

This is the reason why Toyota Crown Majesta was never bring to europe in big scale. There was some test imports (3 came in finland, 1 exists near by my flat.) but no luxury car buyer could find it under the same trademark as small Starlets. To fix this marketing problem, Lexus was created, which has been making much better, though in Finland, if you want to be noticed, buy a one. especially LS430 series are way much rarer than it's competors in same class (S500 series, A8 and 600-series BMWs.)

[VQ]

Really? What about the Celica, MR2 and Supra?
What's VW offered that's fun to drive? The Mk1 GTI and the R32's certainly are, but all other GTI's are overweight, overpriced, underperforming cars that sell purely based on the GTI badge. There's also the old Scirocco/Corrado, but they were never were any better than the fwd Celicas, and certainly couldn't hold a candle to the AWD Celicas.

I was meaning current toyota's, all those cars are no-longer made, or at least sold in Australia anymore, the sportiest car we have now is a Corrolla or Camry Sportivo (god help us) hardly exciting cars. They rally with a Corrolla that uses AWD Celica underpinnings and next year Subaru has dropped out because the Toyota is close to winning, the fact it's not sold on the streets at all is the main issue, they might have all this stuff on the tracks, but nothing on the street.

The new MkV GTi has been acclaimed as the best one yet, it's 2.0TFSI motor is a work of art, only slightly less torquey then the TDi of the same size, it corners, stops and goes and has the right looks.

[KyzrSoze]

Proper luxury car styling, IMHO, is the current Jaguar XJ's, Bentley's, and Maserati's. Extremely distinctive without a hint of tacky.

Agreed. And with the top dog german styling teams off their collective rocker lately, its a perfect time for new competitor to steal some market share. Something a little more risky could be a big score for VW.

@VQ
And yes, the current crop of Toyotas doesnt have much to excite anyone. I like the new Tacoma pickup, but I doubt anyone else cares about that.;)

[VQ]

Yeah, well the most powerful 2wd toyota here is the Hilux 4.0V6, apparntly meant to compete with the XR6/8 and the SS commodore ute, considering that they both are sedan based and have a heap more power and are lower and actually handle and such, Toyota has no clue...

[chris]

Agreed. And with the top dog german styling teams off their collective rocker lately, its a perfect time for new competitor to steal some market share. Something a little more risky could be a big score for VW.

@VQ
And yes, the current crop of Toyotas doesnt have much to excite anyone. I like the new Tacoma pickup, but I doubt anyone else cares about that.;)


Yeah, the Italians are definately doing a better job styling wise. The Quattroporte is easily the most desirable luxury sedan at the moment.