Just read it today that they've made a pill of hydrogen that can will now enable a car 500km range within the space of a 50 liter tank where it used to take 9 whole cars (according to the article). The pill is totally safe and be carried in your pocket or left on the desk. The picture of the article (see link below) is held up and held in the flame of a lighter.
Site in danish, but they say the news is being released worldwide now after 6 months of utmost secrecy to secure patentrights worldwide, which I can definately understand since as far as I know this is a big brakethrough.
http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Indland/2005/09/07/062155.htm
NOTE: Of course I do know there's still the matter of creating clean energy in amounts big enough for the production/extraction of hydrogen!
Frank
FeZ
09-07-2005, 08:23 AM
Is it 6 months already since April Fools day ?
jtace
09-07-2005, 08:36 AM
I actually think this one is true. There was a post about it on slashdot as well and the comments there are pretty good about sorting out vaporware and bullshit.
Frank N. O.
09-07-2005, 08:58 AM
Excuse me???
Edit: It was on the tv-news just now, it was made by the Danish Technical University and they formed a company Amminex and he said it was so simple they couldn't believe no-one did it before. A car could be driving with this in just 18 months.
Frank
FIATLOVE
09-07-2005, 02:25 PM
It's awesome news, I read it today.
WOW!
Ayce
09-07-2005, 02:30 PM
Well, we all know what happens to good patented ideas. Eventually, the big oil companies will buy the patent out, then hide the product 'till the end of time so no one can muscle in on their territory. Been there seen that. ^_^
(Of course,you must take this whole statement with toungue firmly in cheek :D )
chris
09-07-2005, 03:45 PM
It'll never happen..
Oil companies and anyone with oil interests will see to that.
jtace
09-07-2005, 04:30 PM
There will come a point where oil costs enough and an alternative is cheap enough that someones going to make money off of it.
MATT
09-07-2005, 04:54 PM
Hello biodiesel :D
btw, nice to see you around posting lately Josh :D
VQ
09-08-2005, 01:18 AM
I've been ranting about Biodiesel for a while, but it can't be mainstream until they sort out the coldness issue.
Commander
09-08-2005, 01:34 AM
At long last, the ethanol plant is Hussar, Alberta, Canada, has made enough of an impact to cause the Eastern Canadian provinces (Nova Scotia in particular, i believe) to open their minds to alcohol fuel stations. While the hydrogen cell is by far superior to ethanol fuel, there still needs to be something in the mean time to fill the gap until the H-cells become more practical, and booze it the answer, literally. To date, I don't think there have been any 'ethanol fuel-up stations', but apparently there are now out East, and the biggest consumer (and project sponsor) is the Canadian government; they fuel all their fleet cars with the fuel. So, to simply assume that oil companies hold all the cards when it comes to alternative fuel supplies just isn't true, the government of Canada has stepped up to the plate, and that isn't just some small time dude that oil company hitment can kill off. No, the future is there, and I think that the H-cell will ultimately be the key, but during the transition between fossil fuels and h-cell, I think the ethanol plants are perhaps the most logical alternative fuel sources that can be deemed as practical. A year ago, filling with booze would cost double. Currently, the cost if filling a tank with ethanol is almost the same as filling with low-grade gasoline. Give it another six months, and it will be cheaper to use "the 'shine". You see the trend taking shape, it cannot be stopped. Besides, any wise businessman will realize that when a certain element that is essential to their success is rather scarce (oil), it is time to seek out other routes or, to cut to the nitty gritty, his kids are gonna go without Christmas gifts in short order, so to speak. Oil tycoons aren't "Tycoons" without reason, they are generally quite knowledgeable businessmen, and it would take a fool bent on hanging on to dying traditions not to move to the next level in the fuel business.
chris
09-08-2005, 02:47 AM
The problem with that is that there are a great deal of people who still tell you religiously that the whole peak oil thing is just smoke and mirrors from a bunch of left-wing pacifist tree hugging greenies.
For me, anything has to be better than conventional fuels. Those are so damn expensive now, and more price rises are expected in a few days time.
VQ
09-08-2005, 07:06 AM
The government needs to drop the tax on the fuel cost, because all it's doing is making it more expensive for us.
KyzrSoze
09-08-2005, 08:39 AM
Hello biodiesel :D
I've been ranting about Biodiesel for a while, but it can't be mainstream until they sort out the coldness issue.
I haven't done the reading yet, but my truck is supposed to be a particularly good candidate for biodiesel/veggie oil conversion. Some of the guys at toyota diesel forum are already running it successfully, even in Canada with preheaters and chemical additives and such. I am not sure if I want to go that route or not, mostly because it can be alot of work just finding sources for the fuel, and then driving around and begging for it all the time.
One guy just sold his converted 1983 Dodge D50 diesel on ebay and got an incredible price. :eek:
Our car's aren't converted, all you do is make the fuel, really, we should upgrade the fuel lines to stainless steel braided lines to stop the destruction of the rubber by the Methonal in the fuel and something to keep it warm in winter, but most places that sell it (not in Australia we don't get it at all) have B20 which is 20% BD and 80% diesel to stand the cold weather.
Dad's currently making a batch and it is finally cheaper to make even when buying the 44 gallon drums of oil because of the fuel prices.
Smokey!
09-11-2005, 04:52 AM
He he I actually thought "well yeah some danish guys showing off. There is probably some american company out which inventet that stuff years ago." And here Iīm reading that they ARE in fact the first ones and it isnt just BS as usual from the media lol. When people speak of alternative fuels I always think on the fact that back in time until 1920 electrical cars was a serious alternative to gasoline driven cars. Then the gasoline companies lobbied the politicians to make it illegal for electrical carmakers to advertise for their products. Donīt know how much of that is true, but its rather ironically that a solution that was already availiable some 80 years ago NOW will make an impact. Well..sort of.
Also ethanol (or is it methanol?) and veggie oil are alredy availible only thing holding it back are as I see it the oilindustry. Too bad! In year 2015 it will proberly be discovered that fuel cell technology is ridiculous easy to make and they will be laughing at how stupid people where back then (now) that they didnt realise this :D
Justin Martin
09-11-2005, 11:25 AM
When people speak of alternative fuels I always think on the fact that back in time until 1920 electrical cars was a serious alternative to gasoline driven cars. Then the gasoline companies lobbied the politicians to make it illegal for electrical carmakers to advertise for their products. Donīt know how much of that is true,
I've never heard of a ban on electric car advertising in the US, and I searched for a few minutes on the internet and couldn't find anything. Also, the '10s and '20s were in the Progressive Era in the US, when anti-trust laws were being heavily enforced. It would've been a bit out of form for the politicians of that time to have done something to help create a monopoly. But of course, politicans are unpredictable...
But you are correct that up until the 1920's, electric (and steam) cars were a legitiment alternative to gas cars. But that was due to the crappiness of gas cars at the time. My grandfather has a 1921 Ford Model T, and it's amazingly crude. The handling is positively terrifying at speeds above 30km/h, and the (rear only) brakes are so weak that the quickest way to stop it is to nail the reverse pedal. It leaks fluids worse than a British car, has lots of drivetrain vibrations, overheats easily in hot weather, and is fairly loud. (compared to horses, electric and steam cars) With the electric starter, it is tricky and complicated to start. With the hand crank, it's dangerous in addition to tricky and complicated.
Admitedly, the handling and brake complaints applied to the electric and steam cars too. But the other issues were the ones raised by electric and steam car proponents of the time. Electric cars didn't have much range at that time, but it was enough for driving around town, which was all that most people did prior to the '20s. And in big cities, electricity was initially more common than gasoline.
But I think the downfall of steam and electric would have happened regardless of any trickery on the part of the oil companies. Steam was doomed because of start up time, why would anyone want to wait five to thirty minutes for their car to start when there are two good instant start alternatives? Then the range issue of electric cars became an issue when people started driving between towns.
Venom800tt
09-11-2005, 12:28 PM
Interesting topic O_o
Anyway while I love the idea of hydrogen fuel cell cars and gas cars converted to burn hydrogen, there is still one BIG problem with hydrogen: production of the fuel. Right now most hydrogen comes from fossil fuels (coal and natural gas), so that kinda defeats the purpose of using it as a clean energy source. So unless nuclear fission (and eventually fusion), wind power, or solar power catch on the future of hydrogen fuel isn't all that great....
NFSracer
09-11-2005, 05:22 PM
So gas pumps could be a thing of the past someday? All you would have to do is go buy a bottle of hydrogen pills at wal-mart lol. I was thinking though about the solar power thing for making hydrogen or power for anything really. Wouldn't it make sense to use all that roof space in cities for placing solar panels? Really it would have no effect on the building or how it works. Think of all those high buildings in Toronto, New York, etc... Place panels on every free spot on every roof and imagine how much power you could probably produce. I'd think the only reason solar isn't used as more of a main stream power would be because the amount of space the panels take up on the ground. So a roof would be good place for them then right? And there ya go, power for making hydrogen. :D
VQ
09-12-2005, 04:34 AM
Apparantly the coal reserves for Melbourne's/Victoria's Electricity is going to last a very long time. And Wind farms, solar energy etc, is more expensive then fossil fuel, which is why it's taking so long....
Electric cars phased out in the 20's mainly because of the fact cars from GM and other companys were getting quicker, safer and could go a lot longer range then the Electric cars, electric couldn't go very far without a recharge, which always limited it and still is now...
chris
09-12-2005, 05:33 AM
We should be doing all we can to get away from our dependance on fossil fuels.
We are already seeing the troubles of our reliance on them with high fuel prices. What happens if 20% or 30% of the oil America relies on suddenly isn't available any more?
America would be in total chaos.
Saying that we've still got plenty of coal reserves and it's still cheap and so on is not very responsible.
VQ
09-13-2005, 12:31 AM
I know that Chris, but that's the whole reason companys don't do much about it, because they still have something cheap to rely on. Our fuel prices are rising here because of America needing barrels from everywhere and it means we lose out, if Americans didn't have so many fuel guzzling no performance 4x4's we'd be better off...
Frank N. O.
09-13-2005, 01:41 AM
Don't forget China's exploding economy, there is no single culprit here, things are never simple to fix, sadly :(
Frank
Nappe1
09-13-2005, 04:00 AM
Somehow, it makes me smile everytime when Australians, U.S. people and Canadians start talking about how expensive Gasoline nowadays is.... :D
Last night I walked by local ESSO (Exxon here) Gas station and noticed that they have dropped the price. Now it costs only 1 Euro 35 sents per Liter. :)
So, are we driving with Diesels or hybrids? naah, Diesels have huge use tax in their price (example, with Diesel Golf you need to drive more than 120 000 km in a year so that it's cheaper to keep than Gas version.) and suprisingly, local law parallers Hybrids under Fuel Cell technology and so they get same use taxes as Diesels. This makes Hybrids about 3 times more expensive to keep. (for the start, Prius costs here same as basic model of Camry costed before they ended it's importing. It's a bit too much for Corolla sized car.)
Besides, even Diesel costs over a euro per liter here.
chris
09-13-2005, 04:30 AM
It's funny when we see people talking about 1.35 euros per litre, when in some places it's 6 Euros or 7 Euros. :eek:
To be honest, I'm doing the right thing whenever possible and suffering along with public transportation whenever possible. :)
It's a bit too much for Corolla sized car.)
Corolla sized exterior, Camry size interior. :)
VQ
09-13-2005, 04:35 AM
Diesel is the best mix for intermediate fuel however, it's cheaper to make, even the low sulpher versions and it's more efficient. That is IMO and only until we have hydrogen sorted.
Yes China is a concern, but thankfully they are taking small cars and the biggest mainstream they have is the Stateman badged as the buick Grand Royale or something with a 3.4 Alloytech motor, wait, they also sell the HSV Grange there badged as a buick, but that wouldn't sell much.
Smokey!
09-13-2005, 06:20 AM
I've never heard of a ban on electric car advertising in the US, and I searched for a few minutes on the internet and couldn't find anything.
Thats why I wrote that I didnīt knew if it was true :) . It was said in a program I saw about the impact of leaded gas, where oilcompanies said "no problem lead hurt nobody" but in reality it turned out that lead have had serious impacts into the health of humans even today.
Eventually electrics are doomed to fail anyway since that electricity have to come from somewhere (read: coal).
KyzrSoze
09-13-2005, 06:45 AM
It's funny when we see people talking about 1.35 euros per litre, when in some places it's 6 Euros or 7 Euros.
People should definitely complain about fuel costing 1.35 euros/liter, those paying 6 or 7 should be storming the castle with torches and pitchforks. :) In places where fuel is consistently that high a large part of the cost is going to taxes, which is truly criminal. At least corporations respond to market changes and competition. Government just takes.
Eventually electrics are doomed to fail anyway since that electricity have to come from somewhere (read: coal).
Nuclear power generation is an option as well.
bogs
09-13-2005, 08:30 AM
Heres an interesting soloution ( of a sorts ) that appeared around '96, the Quasiturbine engine (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/quasiturbine.htm/printable) . Similar but far more efficient than the Wankel ( unfortunately, also far less real world tested ) , it will run on nearly anything .
From the article:
Finally, the Quasiturbine can run on different kinds of fuel, including methanol, gasoline, kerosene, natural gas and diesel. It can even accommodate hydrogen as a fuel source, making it an ideal transitional solution as cars evolve from traditional combustion to alternate fuels.
I tend to agree , this would make an ideal transitional powerplant , hell , even aside from all its capabilities , the geeky tech factor alone would tempt me to throw one in -^
Venom800tt
09-13-2005, 12:03 PM
Heres an interesting soloution ( of a sorts ) that appeared around '96, the Quasiturbine engine (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/quasiturbine.htm/printable) . Similar but far more efficient than the Wankel ( unfortunately, also far less real world tested ) , it will run on nearly anything .
From the article:
I tend to agree , this would make an ideal transitional powerplant , hell , even aside from all its capabilities , the geeky tech factor alone would tempt me to throw one in -^
Oh my, that is one neat engine :love:
Someone needs to hurry and develop it for practicle use :D
Nappe1
09-14-2005, 01:08 AM
It's funny when we see people talking about 1.35 euros per litre, when in some places it's 6 Euros or 7 Euros. :eek:
To be honest, I'm doing the right thing whenever possible and suffering along with public transportation whenever possible. :)
Corolla sized exterior, Camry size interior. :)
Chris: don't mix up liters and gallons here... :)
1 U.S. gallon is 3.7854118 liter, which makes then 5.11030593 Euros per U.S. gallon (or can you show me place where gasoline costs that 6-7 Euros per litre?)
I also use public transportation whenever it's possible, but more about that later. :)
chris
09-14-2005, 01:26 AM
Yeah, I just thought I'd throw in a bit of curve ball to see if anyone would notice it. ;) Nearly worked. ;)
bogs
09-18-2005, 09:46 PM
Came across this related story out of Canada , and figured I'd tack it on here instead of creating a new thread. Interesting tech abounds apparently :)
Hydrogen assist for gasoline engines (http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=cfeb17de-d945-4db4-87a6-090911200e96)