Holden's difficulties.

[chris]

Holden has announced recently that it will cut 1,400 jobs from its Elizabeth plant, winding back 3 years of growth.

Apparently slowing demand for Holden products have caused this.

You have to wonder, if 1000 job losses at Mitsubishi equal a total crisis, does this spell doom for Holden?

The next new Commodore, with the model code VE is certain to be a crucially important model. But one wonders about the effectiveness of Holden including high-technology in Commodore, when just as many buyers happily will pay the same, or more for a Toyota Camry and accept the V6 engine technology of 10 years ago, rather than todays technology with huge power outputs, variable valve timing, high compression ratios, good fuel economy and other such refinements.

Or is it really a stigma about Holden reliability that drives customers to Toyota? Or is Holden just not doing enough to market its cars properly?

I can't see any reason why any reasonable person should want to choose the absurdly named Toyota Camry Sportivo (it is hardly a sporting car) over the Holden Commodore S V6.

In Camry, you have to settle for 45kW less outright power, no variable valve timing, less torque, 1 less gear ratio in the automatic transmission, and you don't get the ability to change gears with the paddles behind the steering wheel. And you must settle for only front wheel drive rather than - superior in a large, powerful car - rear wheel drive. The Commodore arguably feels less cost cut than the Camry, and overall has a more expensive feel to it, while the prices are quite competitive. And finally, the Camry never ever has handling dynamics to match the quite firmly suspended, but never harsh Commodore.

On that basis, I don't get while people will still buy Camry. Where is the logic?

[VQ]

They buy it because they think it's reliable, when Holdens can be just as reliable, and getting rid of the 3rd shift isn't THAT big of a deal, it makes sense from inside, Toyota apparantly only made a few hundred thousand profit whereas holden and Ford made a couple hundred million profit, there is room to improve the cars and keep the cost down IMO.

[wello]

They buy it because they think it's reliable, when Holdens can be just as reliable, and getting rid of the 3rd shift isn't THAT big of a deal, it makes sense from inside, Toyota apparantly only made a few hundred thousand profit whereas holden and Ford made a couple hundred million profit, there is room to improve the cars and keep the cost down IMO.
Tell the poor buggers that are going to lose their jobs :( that is NO BIG DEAL
:rolleyes:

[chris]

Indeed - well said.

[VQ]

From what I've read, they are losing the 3rd shift which is 1000 people and 300 people in managment or something, this is because of moony, man I hate that guy, nothing but bad news for Holden.

Also they ware offering packages and jobs in other supplier area's to them...

[chris]

I hope so. I think Holden has really taken too long to get its new products to the market place as well, and in general, the Adventra didn't seem to take off as it was expected probably didn't help. And the Monaro problem also causes difficulty. It sold well overseas, (USA excepted), but here the sales slowed somewhat.

The American running the show certainly doesn't have the same way of doing things as Peter Hanenberger, the Russelsheimer who was in the top job before him.

Things are getting tough at the bottom end of the market. It really has to try and start stealing away sales from BMW and Benz. And to do that, it really has to shake off those lingering reliability doubts from a few years back, and Hanenberger's promise of "Audi quality" must be achieved. If they can do that, they'll be fine. :)

But job cuts have a nasty habit of getting customers off side as well..

[VQ]

I did read about the VE in Motor and the panel gaps are going to be under 100mm or something like that, but I'm still waiting for a new Torana to compete against the 3 series' and to replace the Vectra.

The Monaro has sold something like triple the amount expected and sold more places then ever expected, it's been very successful and it's selling for another year overseas.....

Hanenberger was a legend, we need more guys like him, not this Moony guy, who just wants American barges.

The Barina is being replaced with the Daewoo Kalos named as the Barina and the Astra Classic is being replaced for the Holden Viva (Daewoo's Astra sized and same engined model) so they can get a bit more sales, with the cheaper costs and all.

[chris]

Bad idea to replace the Astra with a Daewoo model. The entire reason Daewoo failed was it cheapness and nastyness.

Part of the reason Astra was successful was because it didn't have the shameless nastyness of its Korean opposition. The Astra "Classic" model (basically the old Astra) is still a good car.

Cheaper doesn't automatically equal more sales. If you serve people a better product they'll buy it even at a more costly price, if they consider what they are getting does justify the increased price.

I'd be alarmed at 100mm panel gaps though.. :p (I know it was a typo). ;) Probably even Hindustan or Tata does better than that.

What they have to do with Monaro is what British Aerospace and Aerospatiale failed to do with Concorde by not producing the excellent B model. Having proved the worth of a product, they then failed to continue with it, and follow on with an improved version addressing the changing customer needs- basically to nurture and expand the market - and as a result, the market failed.

[VQ]

Yeah, I pulled a number out, I read that Audi were aiming for 25mm gaps, or maybe 2.5mm? well holden's aiming for very close panel fitment, and I hope Audi like quality myself too.

Well, look at the Colt Chris, that car deserves to be successful, but it's priced too high for thecar it is as it's competiters may have a model at that price, but they have lower models and a 3 door model too usually, but the Colt is a good car, but it hasn't taken off, so people won't pay for more quality with a higher price that low in the market, maybe above 30 grand, yes, but not below 20 grand.

I wish Moony would leave already though, unless he wants holden like it was in the 80's.....

[wello]

From what I've read, they are losing the 3rd shift which is 1000 people and 300 people in managment or something, this is because of moony, man I hate that guy, nothing but bad news for Holden.

Also they ware offering packages and jobs in other supplier area's to them...

thats if the suppliers have jobs to give because with Holden shutting down that shift it also makes a impact on the suppliers in that 1 less shift at holden
means less parts to supply which means less jobs in the supplers shops because demand for parts has dropped the suppliers them self may have to
layoff workers because of Holdens cuts there is alot more jobs at stake than just the ones at Holden .

I have worked for a big company that downsized and have seen how many other companys it hurts
I worked for Brambles at Port Kembla when the steel works changed its way of doing things and put of 1000's of men it hurt our company as well we went from have 400 people to under 200 so don't tell this Holden thing won't hurt more than the people that work for Holden there are lots of companys that depend on Holden so it will hurt them too