AWD turbo Mazda 6!

[chris]

Anyone seen the AWD turbocharged Mazda 6 MPS? What a nice machine:

http://www.mazda6mps.com.au/

Direct injection 2.3L turbocharged inline 4
190kW @ 5500rpm
380Nm @ 3000rpm
240km/hr top speed
0-100km/hr 6.6 seconds
Euro IV emission standards compliance
6 speed manual gearbox
All-wheel-drive

For me, it doesn't have the same special appeal as the wonderful rotary engined RX-8, but for a fairly practical 4 door saloon it doesn't seem too bad.

[Venom800tt]

Yeap, I heard about it. Pretty nice car. It looks great and has pretty good performance so It should sell well. :) It is one of the few under $30k sedans I would ever consider buying.

[lewi]

MMmmmm......azda. Very nice indeed, I like the way Mazda opted to hide the scoop on the bonnet (it has a double faux bonnet which lets in air from the front if you look closely).

If you want to test drive it, wait for Gran Turismo 4 to come out! :)

[VQ]

I read about it about 2 months ago now, didn't bother to mention it here, didn't think you would be that interested, but even i'm slightly impressed, but i still don't think much of the RX8, it hasn't grown on me and still looks wrong and just doesn't press my buttons no matte how effiecent and powerful they can make a rotary.

[blackice111288]

I read about it about 2 months ago now, didn't bother to mention it here, didn't think you would be that interested, but even i'm slightly impressed, but i still don't think much of the RX8, it hasn't grown on me and still looks wrong and just doesn't press my buttons no matte how effiecent and powerful they can make a rotary.
same thoughts as me, i still think the 3rd gen RX-7 spirit R was the best looking in stock form. i've seen a few nice rx-8's, veilside actually makes a few good looking body kits for it, and the mazda speed version is dead sexy, i'll post pics when i get more time, i should be in bed right now.

i havent hear about the AWD version, but i have something about a turbo version, but then again, i missed all the good autoshows this year.

[MATT]

State-side the car is called the Mazdaspeed 6. I saw it and sat in it at NAIAS and came away impressed. It's definitely different looking than the regular 6 in little ways. From what I hear Mazda doesn't intend on it being an all-out rally car type of thing. Not meant to compete with the likes of a WRX STi or a Lancer Evolution VIII out of the box. Comparable horsepower and the fact that it has AWD is about where it ends. It's definitely not as quick and also understeers more.

It has much more potential for sure from an all-out performance view, but the car would make for a very fun daily driver I would think. Mazda feels they are trading off a little performance to gain some extra comfort. They don't want it to be compared to the rally cars despite its otherwise seemingly similar characteristics. That may prove to be a shrewd move. Time will tell, I suppose.

I do feel that the all out sporting nature of the WRX, on top of its racing pedigree, has helped their sales quite a bit. The regular WRX is rather popular in this area. Mazda doesn't have that to go on. We shall see how they do.

[Justin Martin]

I do feel that the all out sporting nature of the WRX, on top of its racing pedigree, has helped their sales quite a bit. The regular WRX is rather popular in this area. Mazda doesn't have that to go on. We shall see how they do.

It's definitely helped Subaru's sales alot here in Texas, they were almost non-existant before the WRX. An occasional Outback, but otherwise, their regular product line had no appeal. AWD just isn't a selling point in a state where in most places it only snows once or twice a year.

But the WRX's sell very well here. That's about all the local Subaru dealership stocks.

[VQ]

It's a Liberty B4 opponent, more luxury high performance, and it is a stiffer chasis hence why it's based on the Sdean thent he hatch, because it can be amde stiffer easier, they have also designed it with some mind for drifting too.

[chris]

State-side the car is called the Mazdaspeed 6. I saw it and sat in it at NAIAS and came away impressed. It's definitely different looking than the regular 6 in little ways. From what I hear Mazda doesn't intend on it being an all-out rally car type of thing. Not meant to compete with the likes of a WRX STi or a Lancer Evolution VIII out of the box. Comparable horsepower and the fact that it has AWD is about where it ends. It's definitely not as quick and also understeers more.

It has much more potential for sure from an all-out performance view, but the car would make for a very fun daily driver I would think. Mazda feels they are trading off a little performance to gain some extra comfort. They don't want it to be compared to the rally cars despite its otherwise seemingly similar characteristics. That may prove to be a shrewd move. Time will tell, I suppose.

I do feel that the all out sporting nature of the WRX, on top of its racing pedigree, has helped their sales quite a bit. The regular WRX is rather popular in this area. Mazda doesn't have that to go on. We shall see how they do.

The "Rexes" are quite popular everywhere. They are very fun to drive cars, and there engine has a very vibrant character - especially with that wonderful rumbling howl. I don't think America gets the more hyper-active and better sounding 2.0L turbo ones sadly.

Some of those are redlined at a crazy 8700rpm (Ver. III STi coupé for instance). 239kW (around 330bhp) and over 370Nm of torque from just 2.0 litres is a little crazy. And they put a gearbox with that with Subaru's famously short gear ratios. Just amazing.

The rally pedigree also helps the sales. And to a large degree, the improvements do correspond with the Subaru WRC efforts, just like with the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution series over the years.

I also agree that the Mazda 6 MPS won't be a rival for the more hardcore Rexes, but rather a rival for the more mature (but still incredibly quick) Legacy B4 models.

How it compares with those will be interesting to discover. The Legacy B4 has long been the handling benchmark of its category, and old shape Legacy B4 was easily superior to the old Biturbo V6 Audi S4 for handling prowess.

But the B4's also have reasonably nice ride-quality. Maybe not plush like a luxury car, but rather quite firm in the manner of most sporting saloons, although not too harsh. It has a good balance of body control, and enough compliance to not be bothered by most bumps.

And these days, they also have elegant, restrained looks. :)

If the Mazda 6 MPS can take on that sort of competition and win, then it is something really special.

[VQ]

The B4 motor is a WRX motor with twin turbo's rather then a single turbo, so it delivers power differently of course.

Audi does have a deeper rally predigree, sadly, they don't compete anymore, it would be good if they did enter though.

And Chris, the majority of WRX owners put an aftermarket exaust on to upgrade the power and such, so even if it doesn't ahe a deep note stock, it will happen anyway with better economy.

Did you know that Subaru had a small athch that w3as called the "Rex" in the 60's and 70's? U think it was a two cylender two stroke though.

[chris]

When the WRX aka "Rex" first came out (back in the early to mid 1990's), its engine lacked torque and was very peaky. But then they worked at it, and made it a incredibly responsive and potent engine. Even in standard form, they always made a lovely noise.

All the while, WRX was blessed with foolproof handling qualities right from the start, good enough that anyone could drive one relatively quickly. It really transformed the fortunes of Subaru. Previous Legacy RS Turbo models were quite swift, but definately they didn't have the magic of the WRX.

The WRX was quite probably Subaru's Audi Quattro Coupé. We all remember the still wonderful inline-5 turbo Audi Quattro coupé, a simple but amazing "parts-bin special" that transformed Audi from a maker of practical but boring small cars and family saloons, to a genuine maker of high performance cars. It put them on the map. The WRX did that for Subaru, along with a successful rally campaign, with cars driven by rally greats like Colin McRae, Richard Burns, Carlos Sainz, Juha Kankkunen, Tommi Makinen, etc.

A company should never under-estimate the crowd and buyer pulling power of howling, crackling and banging beasts like these:

http://www.motorbild-rally.com/images/rally/2002/wrc%20vm/tommi%20makinen/tm%20t02-05.JPG

[VQ]

yeah, thats why Holden and Ford are in V8 supercars even if you can't buy the exact same thing, and they have a different motor, but still, motorsport sells.

[MATT]

We didn't start getting the WRX until 2002, unfortunately. But major props to Subaru for finally pulling it off. There is indeed demand for the car here and it is absolutely their best-seller now.

Our base-model WRX is a 2.0L. Not the screamer the older ones were, but good enough for 227 hp. The STi is a 2.5... I'm assuming the screaming 2.0 you speak of is from an older generation the U.S. never received?

Ford's sales of the Focus have been improved by their WRC involvement as well. I've known a few people who said they wouldn't have bought one if it didn't.

But the WRX is even more special. Especially the STi version simply because it is the closest thing to an actual rally car you'll ever get. Despite the FIA not requiring homologation like they once did Subaru and Mitsubishi have gone ahead and done it anyway. And the mere fact that one can buy a car that is so very closely related to its racing counter-part does wonders for sales once the word gets out.

[blackice111288]

i think the 2.5 and 2.0 are based off the same block, the FJ20 and FJ25.
we got 2.5 rs's back when they were avalible, but they are rare, there is only 1 or 2 where i live.

[chris]

Not the screamer the older ones were, but good enough for 227 hp. The STi is a 2.5... I'm assuming the screaming 2.0 you speak of is from an older generation the U.S. never received?

The 2.0L screamer was from the old version III STi series (in the original Impreza shape), it was a 2 door model, the USA sadly never received it.

It had many features, like locking centre differential, and a few other tricks not seen in recent less focused STi products. The locking centre diff was a bad idea for road use (mega understeer if it were locked), but on dirt roads very nice. It was a great car. Very raw, very fast.

Straight from Japan, it had a 180km/hr governed speed-limit (at 6037rpm in top gear) to comply with Japanese vehicle regulations, but limiter removed, it'd easily surpass that. Compare that limitation with the 8700rpm cut-out, and you can easily see there is a bit more left in it. Especially given that it would still be charging forward when nearing 180km/hr.

But not content with such wonderful cars, they put together some even more special machines, like the very fast Impreza STi 22B coupé, one of the quickest Imprezas from the factory ever.

[chris]

Matt: See the attachment, that's the one I was talking about. :) Finally found a good photo of it. And that is indeed one of the outrageous colour schemes it came in. (Anything but subtle).

The shortened name is Impreza WRX Type R STi Version III. One of the best Imprezas outside of the awesome 22B. These older ones didn't bother with having lots of gadgets and fancy trim inside them, they were just like a normal Impreza, but with a nicer steering wheel, and proper seats, and some other little differences. Your extra money got you something that went very quickly. Some of them also had a vent in the roof that could be opened slightly if you needed some cooling air in the cabin, just like on the WRC version of this Impreza.

These things were only very light weight (only about 1240kg IIRC - lighter than a Porsche Boxster), so the power (206kW claimed, but more than 230kW in reality) was more than adequate to provide outrageous acceleration.

I do beleive some of the newer WRX's are ever so slightly more "soft" in their performance, and not quite as savage or raw as the earlier models.

[VQ]

Well, ok, Blackice, the FJ20 is a Nissan block, the EJ20 is a Subaru block.

[MATT]

I remember reading of the 22B a few years back, sadly in an article that also mentioned its unavailability here in the U.S. yet again. However, if the short block is essentially the same as the normally aspirated 2.2 found in many Subaru products sold here (older Legacys come to mind) it may not be too far-fetched to hack together something similar to a 22B ;) The older 2.5 RS models aren't too rare either. See a few of those here and there.

I have heard that the normally aspirated 2.2L is about the least-troublesome engine Subaru has ever sold... Probably wouldn't be a bad starting place for some modifications if one were so inclined ;)

[chris]

Matt: Here are some videos of the STi 22B:

http://www.car-videos.com/videos/wrx.asp

Difficult to imagine any other 4 cylinder engine can sound any better than that. :) And this is straight from the factory, no aftermarket mods needed. (even better).

350hp, such forceful torque output, and little weight equalled quite an incredible combination. :) They were about as close as one could get to the Subaru Impreza world-rally-car of the day in a road-legal package.

Australia was so lucky to receive these. AUD$110,000 for the privilege of owning one of these very special Imprezas.

[VQ]

the one I'm thiking of is the two door with speical front and rear head and tailights, and was a concept car, looked awsome in it's grey colour though.

Whats so wrong with aftermarket mods? it's a fact that car companies always don't have their cars making as much hp as they possibly can.

[Frank N. O.]

the one I'm thiking of is the two door with speical front and rear head and tailights, and was a concept car, looked awsome in it's grey colour though.

Whats so wrong with aftermarket mods? it's a fact that car companies always don't have their cars making as much hp as they possibly can.1. That might be the Elektra concept or something.
Edit: http://www.supercars.net/cars/1999@$Subaru@$Impreza%20Electra%20One%20Conceptx.h tml
2. Horsepower, or torque, is not everything, and Chris was also talking about sound.

Frank

[VQ]

And any decent exaust place cna make an exaust using different mufflers and such to ge a legal and awsome sounding beast, personally, mum reckons all modifired WRX's sound like VW beetles, and they do to a degree, I like the EJ motor, they are light and can fit in a hovercraft, at the cost of inteior space of course. this is more in reference to a EJ16 or 18 from a carby model.

[chris]

Where I am, there is a WRX I see rather a lot that sounds exactly like last years Impreza WRC. It even bangs and crackles like the WRC Impreza too on gearchanges.

It goes pretty fast as well. I don't know what was done to its engine, but whatever they did, they did it pretty well. Doesn't seem to have any turbo lag at all. It looks and sounds like it is responsive right away.

[VQ]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, people do race them, and putting a rich fuel mix is definetly posible.

[blackice111288]

Well, ok, Blackice, the FJ20 is a Nissan block, the EJ20 is a Subaru block.
yes you are very right, thanks for correcting me, i didn't catch that.-^

Whats so wrong with aftermarket mods? it's a fact that car companies always don't have their cars making as much hp as they possibly can.
thats what im saying. even though imprezas are made for rally, they are excellent for street cars because few FWD or RWD can match them on take off. while other cars sit there and spin their drivewheels, all four of the Impreza's wheels are catching traction and its gone. there's nothing wrong with a 10 second street WRX , excpecially if they tune the suspension correctly to keep the handling good.

[VQ]

Problem is keeping the gearbox together once it runs faster then an 11, that's what held back the subies and Evo's in Australia, and the fact you can't fit that big front slicks but you could tub the rear at least still holds them back from going quicker then 9's and anyway, they have full roll cages fitted once they run faster then 11's and most cages are illegal for use on the street if they are CAM's legal.

[blackice111288]

the 5 speed transmissions in the base model Impreza WRX's are known to self destuct after so much horses are being run through it. STi's dont have that problem, they have the more solidly built STi 6 speeds.

[VQ]

Well, maybe it's just on the old models transissions on all of them.