Saturn Sky

[Ayce]

Got this link from my brother. http://saturncanada.com/ssi/static/english/vehicles/2005/saturn/sky/sky_overview.html

Looks nice for a GM, :love: but needs more "omph" I think

[chris]

Reminds me a little of the Opel Speedster. But for some reason, I think I'd prefer the Opel.

[VQ]

Looks alright, not quite a Lotus Elise competitor or sister, but still, it's different for Saturn.

[Commander]

When I first saw it, I thought it was in fact a rebadged Opel. I heard GM was thinking on importing the Opel and calling it something different, so maybe this was what they were actually talking about. I think it is a pretty cool little ride. My girlfriend used to work at a Saturn dealership, and I always said "Saturn needs to make a sportscar, all their vehicles are econo". She thought I was out to lunch, but here comes the Saturn Sky, heh.

[chris]

They might have been better in using the mid-engined Opel Speedster. In Turbo form, it is quick enough to out-run many a sportscar - like Porsches, Ferraris, Corvettes, Vipers, etc.

But that's what you get when you consider it is based off the Lotus Elise, one of the greatest handling cars ever built.

On some tracks, the Elise can be even quicker than a Honda NSX - quite an achievement given how fast the NSX is through corners. And the Elise could stop quicker than a 3.8 litre 993 911 Carrera RS Clubsport.

[VQ]

Yeah, this is FR though, very different for Saturn.

[blackice111288]

a rear wheel drive sports car out of Saturn? thats a really big suprise, i thought that would never happen, with all saturns being small econo-cars on par with geo's. i wonder how it will sell, being a saturn and all, since most young people are kinda embarresed to admit to owning a saturn.

[blackice111288]

The SKY roadster was inspired by the Vauxhall VX Lightning Concept – created at GM’s Advanced Design Studio in Birmingham, England – signaling the adoption of an international design language for Saturn.
saturn specs from off the GM site..............


SATURN SKY PRELIMINARY SPECIFICATIONS

General
Body/chassis structure:integral hydroformed tube and stamped steel structure
Body material:hydroformed stamped steel, conventional stamped steel, sheet molding compound
Chassis material:aluminum/steel
Suspension Front:SLA w/coil-over, monotube shock Rear:SLA w/coil-over, monotube shock
Wheels (in):18 x 8 aluminum
Tires Front: Goodyear Eagle RSA P245/45R18 96V
Rear:Goodyear Eagle RSA P245/45R18 96V
Brakes:4-wheel disc w/ ABS Steering:rack and pinion with hydraulic assist
Dimensions
Height (in / mm):49.8 / 1274
Length (in / mm):161.1 / 4091
Width (in / mm):71.4 / 1813
Wheelbase (in / mm):95.1 / 2415 Track (in / mm)
Front:61.7 / 1567
Rear:62.4 / 1584Weight (lb / kg):2860 / 1300 (estimated)
Powertrain
Powertrain Configuration:front engine, rwd
Engine:2.4L DOHC I-4 Ecotec (LE5)
Displacement (cu in / cc):145 / 2400
Horsepower (hp / kw) @ rpm:170 / 127 @ 6400 (estimated)
Torque (lb-ft / Nm) @ rpm:162 / 220 @ 4800 (estimated)
Transmission:Aisin 5-speed manual (standard) , 5-speed automatic (optional)

[VQ]

Those are wide tyres, HSV's didnt[' even have tyres that wide a few years ago fitted to the rear!

Well considering the Honda's are econo cars and nissans are econo cars mostly, they do pretty well so, I guess the Saturn thing might take off.

[blackice111288]

im just gonna pretend you just didnt try to put Honda and Nissan in to the same boat as Saturn:D

they should have labeled it as a chevy or something other than a saturn, to offer a alternative to the new cobalt.

[Commander]

Well, truthfully now, Honda, Nissan and Saturn all target a similar market. Until now, the difference has been that Saturn didn't have a sporty model to offer. With this in mind, Saturn is now more like Honda or Nissan than ever before. Food for thought anyway.

[chris]

Honda and Nissan have never targetted any one market in particular. Hell, Nissan even markets big 4.5 litre V8 limos (Nissan President for instance) for those with plenty of the folding stuff. And both build high-end sports-cars. Or rather Nissan did, before stupidly killing off the awesome Skyline GT-R That was all to do with economic rationalisation, and platform/component sharing.

I'm surprised VW seems to be so slow to get into the MX-5 market. The MX-5 seems to be popular, year in and year out.

[MATT]

im just gonna pretend you just didnt try to put Honda and Nissan in to the same boat as Saturn:D

they should have labeled it as a chevy or something other than a saturn, to offer a alternative to the new cobalt.

How does Pontiac Solstice sound to you? :P

And for the record, Saturn's been above Geo in the rank of GM vehicles. Geo is not even in existence anymore for one. For the other, Saturn has never had a car as small or cheap as the Metro. The other former Geo models were simple rebadges. The Prism is a Toyota Corolla. The Tracker is a Suzuki I believe (Sidekick? I forget what it was called).

Saturn makes unique models. They even attempt unique features and services, notably the "Dent-resistant panels"... which is... well... meaning plastic :) But hey... at least it doesn't rust :D On another note, they are actually getting away from that now. They're becoming steel bodied like most other vehicles on the road these days. And Saturn quality has been relatively high.. for GM vehicles :)

I definitely wouldn't have lumped them into the same category as Geo (Whose models have been absorbed into the Chevrolet brand now).

You can all thank Bob Lutz for this car (and the Pontiac).

Also to his credit would be the Dodge Viper among other things ;)

[VQ]

Honda, Nissan, Toyota, like every other manufacturor on earth, want to make sales, Toyota does it by selling generic bland cars, which people might like if driving is a chore for them, Honda has a bit more feeling, with it's sporty models being halfway sporty, ditto for nissan, but Nissan at least have on RWD car and a good 4x4 which is good for off road work even if no idiot will use it.

The president, like the Nissan Crew, is for the Japanese market only, the Crew is a speccially made Taxi, which they get away with because it's so large a market.

Smart is using plastic panals and Holden even thought about using SMart style interchangable panels as far back as 1985! Gm has had the technology that long.

[Commander]

Honda and Nissan have never targetted any one market in particular. Hell, Nissan even markets big 4.5 litre V8 limos (Nissan President for instance) for those with plenty of the folding stuff. And both build high-end sports-cars. Or rather Nissan did, before stupidly killing off the awesome Skyline GT-R That was all to do with economic rationalisation, and platform/component sharing.

I'm surprised VW seems to be so slow to get into the MX-5 market. The MX-5 seems to be popular, year in and year out.

I honestly can't speak for the market outside of North America; and outside of Canada in specific. From what I know in these lands, there are no Nissan Limousines, Skylines, or high-end sports cars readily available (Hell, we don't even get the GTO/Monaro until 2006). Sorry, I shoud have been more clear, but I was referring to N.A. market, where Saturn came about 15 years ago or so to appeal to the students, single folks, new moms & dads, first time car buyers and the like. That is the same target market as what Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Toyota etc are after, so this is what I based my last response on. I certainly didn't mean worldwide, because frankly, I am ignorant of foreign auto markets. I can say this though, that seeing something like an Acura NSX on the roads here (Calgary, Western Canada) definately turns a lot of heads. I see maybe 2 such cars a year, and most likely they are just the exact same ones I see time and again, lol. Never has the likes of a Skyline graced our roads, they just aren't here.

[VQ]

ALl I can say is: lucky you! THe are Horrible here, all the idiots driving them making more noise then the V8's do, it's horrible. It's now Fashionable to like cars, more then ever.

[blackice111288]

has any one seen the new skyline GTR? i saw it in a a SCC mag, its a huge let down. they would ship the crappy looking one to the us........

[VQ]

It's being tuned by Lotus but, and it does look similar to the other Hi-po nisssans, and besides, they were always ugly so i don't see a difference.

[blackice111288]

It's being tuned by Lotus but, and it does look similar to the other Hi-po nisssans, and besides, they were always ugly so i don't see a difference.
http://uras.co.jp/2004_04image/r34_fc3.jpghttp://uras.co.jp/2004_04image/r34_rc3.jpghttp://uras.co.jp/aero_image/r34_01.jpghttp://uras.co.jp/2004_04image/r32_t1k.jpghttp://uras.co.jp/2004_04image/r33_t4_r.jpghttp://uras.co.jp/2004_04image/r32_t4_rjpg.jpg

i dont see how you can call that ugly. but what ever, to each his own, if you like lego block styled steel death traps, you wont hear me say anything about it.

[VQ]

And the R34 isn't boxy is it? I don't like OTT fibreglass bodykits, unless theya re V8 supercar bodykits basically, and I don't know what you mean lego styled blocks, because the old Nissans are just as boxy, the R34 sedan looks like a 1986 R30 to me in theat side profile. Anything from the first commodore onwards is aerodynamic and is also europeon in it's design.

Death traps? wtf are you on about, if I remeber correctly the japanese were behind on safety ALWAYS and the fact that most japanese cars before 1985 were basically tin cans, with less passive safety then the Holdens, I don't koow or care about what safety the American cars had, but holden has always had good safety, maybe not Volvo ahead safety, but it was always head of the japanese. Also, the other cars I like are Volkswagon's and any FF VW is incredibly strong, if a few years ago,we were hit by a falcon like we had in Dad's old passat, I would have most likely been injured in that accident. So on the subject of safety, those cars are on par with the Australian cars.

And you forget the fact that I don't like Nissans either.

And yes, all of those cars are ugly, becuse they ruin the stock bodykit.

This is coming from a person who owns a 4X4 as well!!

[blackice111288]

And you forget the fact that I don't like Nissans either.
ok, but quit just randomly saying "nissan's are slow" or "nissan's are ugly" or "jap cars suck blah blippity stoppity stupiddy doo...." ,because many of the old holdens or muscle cars or any random cars in general that are the topic of dicussion at any time i dont think too highly off.
But i dont just blurt out all chevy cars suck or all fords are slow or things of that nature, and even if im thinking it i keep it to myself because i realise that there are some people on this forum who like racing chevys and think fords are decent cars.


Commander, we do get some of nissan's high end luxury cars, but under the Infinity bagde. we get the Cima, i think we used to get the Gloria and the Cedric, and a few other of the top notch luxury sedans. they were renamed though. the skyline we do get, the Infinty G35 isnt really a high-end sports car, but more of a, i dunno what would you call it chris? like a grand tourer or sports tourer or something like that? the 350z is more sports car oriented.

[VQ]

all I said in this tpoic was that nissan are primarilily economy cars, Chevy's like that too, but Holden really isn't, otherwise a camry would cost more then a Commodore.

And the ugly bit, I was merely agreeing with you in saying i never found them appealing, like you prolyl don't find a C4 appealing.

[chris]

http://uras.co.jp/2004_04image/r34_fc3.jpghttp://uras.co.jp/2004_04image/r34_rc3.jpghttp://uras.co.jp/aero_image/r34_01.jpghttp://uras.co.jp/2004_04image/r32_t1k.jpghttp://uras.co.jp/2004_04image/r33_t4_r.jpghttp://uras.co.jp/2004_04image/r32_t4_rjpg.jpg

i dont see how you can call that ugly. but what ever, to each his own, if you like lego block styled steel death traps, you wont hear me say anything about it.

I actually think all of those are quite ugly. Especially the R32. What drives people to put such a horrible bodykit on what was a very nice car.

Those are exactly the reason I hate vehicle mods - because so often they end up looking tacky and tasteless like those.

[blackice111288]

so you would rather see one modified like this:
http://www.veilside.co.jp/img/img_r34.jpg (http://www.veilside.co.jp/shop_new/shopnews/skylinemoniter/skylinemoniter.html)http://www.veilside.co.jp/img/img_gtr.gif (http://www.veilside.co.jp/shop_new/shopnews/gtr/shopnews_gtr.html)
i dont think so. i dont see whats so ugly about the drift style bodykits, they are simple with styling close to the stock bumpers, and actually aid in aerodynamics.


but this is ugly:
http://uras.co.jp/2004_04image/r33_t4_f.jpgwhy the big extension on the front bumper?

[chris]

What exactly are those things supposed to improve, specifically? They won't improve downforce, that's for sure. To me they all look bulky and at odds with the original design of the car.

Anyhow, that's all I've got to say on the matter, I have no further comments.

[VQ]

It's funny, cos they do all suck and only factory body kits are good.

[blackice111288]

thats what i say about those v8 super car kits. they dont look much different.
excuse my saying so, but those vn aeros you go on about sometimes are rice
http://www.geocities.com/hdtvnaero/greenmachine.jpg http://www.geocities.com/hdtvnaero/aeroyellow.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/hdtvnaero/AJ-vl4.jpg
that looks good to you?
It's funny, cos they do all suck and only factory body kits are good.fuuny how words can come back to bite you.
basically what i was saying in the first place is, you want me to respect what u think looks good, and i think i deserve that same respect.
"all jap body kits are pointless and useless and ugly and blah blah blah and modded cars are a discrace to the original form and blah blah blah..." i dont hear any complaints about techart's yellow 996, and thats a pretty ugly kit, or any modified Ruf porsches or other euro or muscle cars,ones i dont care about in particluar but will at least try to respect and show interest, when there are LOTS of Japaneze sports cars that can and do perform on the same and if not higher levels as detroit iron or high tech german speeders. why is it bad to but a decent simple body kit on something like a silvia or skyline for example, that exposes the intercooler and make the car look a bit cooler than stock, but someone throws a kit almost identical to a japanese drift style kit on a holden and it looks good?
http://www.lightmoves.com/news/v8supercar2.jpg
yeah, this is a falcon and not a commie, i know that, but this looks like alot of importcars, and that wing is hideous, most civic drivers, even the ricey ricey ones wouldn't even get a wing like that

[blackice111288]

http://www.fabtech-bodykits.com/v2/team/large/fabtechute-1.jpg
http://www.fabtech-bodykits.com/v2/team/thumbs/fabtechute-1.jpg (http://www.fabtech-bodykits.com/v2/team/large/fabtechute-1.jpg)http://www.fabtech-bodykits.com/v2/team/thumbs/fabtechute-2.jpg (http://www.fabtech-bodykits.com/v2/team/large/fabtechute-2.jpg)http://www.fabtech-bodykits.com/v2/team/thumbs/fabtechute-3.jpg (http://www.fabtech-bodykits.com/v2/team/large/fabtechute-3.jpg)
http://www.fabtech-bodykits.com/v2/team/thumbs/fabtechute-4.jpg (http://www.fabtech-bodykits.com/v2/team/large/fabtechute-4.jpg)http://www.fabtech-bodykits.com/v2/team/thumbs/fabtechute-5.jpg (http://www.fabtech-bodykits.com/v2/team/large/fabtechute-5.jpg)http://www.fabtech-bodykits.com/v2/team/thumbs/fabtechute-6.jpg (http://www.fabtech-bodykits.com/v2/team/large/fabtechute-6.jpg)
http://www.fabtech-bodykits.com/v2/team/thumbs/fabtechute-7.jpg (http://www.fabtech-bodykits.com/v2/team/large/fabtechute-7.jpg)http://www.fabtech-bodykits.com/v2/team/thumbs/fabtechute-8.jpg (http://www.fabtech-bodykits.com/v2/team/large/fabtechute-8.jpg)


let me guess, this looks good because it says holden on it, and theres a ls1 in it? i bet this gets ignored:20 inch Luftbahn rims with Falken rubber - JVC Head unit, JVC in-dash screen, Playstation 2, 6.5 inch front splits, 3 x 15 inch Schneider Pro subs, Rockford Fosgate 300X Amp & Schneider 4000HC amp


how does it get to a stupid everyone or v8 crowd vs imports rant each time? cant this come to and end? keep disrespectful comments to your self, is it that hard to ask?

i say post whatever from this point i dont care anymore, im not replying anymore to this subject.

[chris]

yeah, this is a falcon and not a commie, i know that, but this looks like alot of importcars, and that wing is hideous, most civic drivers, even the ricey ricey ones wouldn't even get a wing like that

Er, you do realise that is a race-car, and the wing is there for a very good reason. :idea: Without it, the thing would have very poor handling.

I agree that the others are tragic. The R word applies to them quite well.

[blackice111288]

ok, my last post on this topic, i promise-
remember a while back in the WRC when Subaru caused alot of controvery with their "boxy segemented wing"? that was there for a reason and worked vey well, but people still had something to flap their jaws about it. i remember the host of a particular rally event that had something negative to say about it, and im thinking, if it does its job, whats the big deal? http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/editors/technobabble/0308scc_techno02_z.jpg (http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/editors/technobabble/0308scc_techno/#)

[Justin Martin]

It's funny, cos they do all suck and only factory body kits are good.

Oh, I don't know about that. Here's an aftermarket bodykit that definitely improves the looks of this car:

style-enhancing aftermarket bodykit (http://members.lycos.co.uk/aztek01/tent6.jpg)

[VQ]

Erm, the AERO was a Factory Car, HSV is a Factory car, just like RUF is a factory car, they make a whole car, not just a bodykit, the Aero is a classic bodykit design, it is CLASSY, it is not out there. Really, all it does is make the sides not as round, it was designed by Peter Brock for gods sakes! It is smooth, and has no jagged edges like even the latest HSV's do on their more sporty models. If that is rice, then obviously the stuff you showed is 10X worse, because they aren't smooth at all.

As I said, Holden Special Vehicles (HSV) and Holden Dealer Team (HDT), are Holden Aprroved modifers, now adays HDT might not be, but that's cos HSV is partly owned by Holden and HDT was merely originally formed to fund the HDT racing team. These companies design whole cars, interiors, suspension setups, bodykits, wheels, and they sell them as brand new complete cars, because that's what they are, rather then an aftermarket bodykit.

That blue one is a VY HSV bodykit, A FACTORY bodykit, and that isn't very much stereo for a ute, beleive me, they can fit a lot of stereo in the tray, I didn't know having a stereo was soooo bad. And that car is a Demo car for a company, it's not like it was built for someone, it is literally there to impress would be customers at car shows, all Fabtech fibreglass do is fibreglass. Also, that LS1 makes about 300RWKW or so, so while it might lok bad to you (which it doesn't to me, because it is a factory HSV bodykit.

[chris]

Oh, I don't know about that. Here's an aftermarket bodykit that definitely improves the looks of this car:

style-enhancing aftermarket bodykit (http://members.lycos.co.uk/aztek01/tent6.jpg)


Actually, there is a better way to improve them. Send to Novaya Zemlya. Call for one TU-95 with Tzar Bomba, issue directions to the car needing remodelling.

That should improve the styling. )=)

Now the whole HDT (Holden Dealer Team) thing went off the rails with that infamous energy polariser device. :rolleyes: It was the sort of garbage you might expect to find advertised on late night TV infomercials, but it was truly for real, and its backer truly believed in it. Not that it convinced everyone else mind you. We were all heavily sceptical and for good reason.

[Venom800tt]

Actually, there is a better way to improve them. Send to Novaya Zemlya. Call for one TU-95 with Tzar Bomba, issue directions to the car needing remodelling.

That should improve the styling. )=)
Even that won't be enough.... ^_^
Lets just drop the moon or something on it. Better yet throw them all into a black hole :D

[VQ]

There is a GM motorsports version with a C5R motor in it, and they modified the rear end, it looked better and was a lot lower and lighter and faster.

[blackice111288]

Erm, the AERO was a Factory Car, HSV is a Factory car, just like RUF is a factory car, they make a whole car, not just a bodykit, the Aero is a classic bodykit design, it is CLASSY, it is not out there. Really, all it does is make the sides not as round, it was designed by Peter Brock for gods sakes! It is smooth, and has no jagged edges like even the latest HSV's do on their more sporty models.still ugly, just like that ute with that tacky bodykit.
http://www.fabtech-bodykits.com/v2/team/large/fabtechute-1.jpghttp://uras.co.jp/2004_04image/r34_fc3.jpg that kit on the ute is smoother, more aerodynamic, and more closer to stock than the one on the R34 GTR? i beg to differ, the ute gets whipped in both looks and performance. the ute looks like the civic invader kit or whatever rice pos bumper it's called.

[Justin Martin]

still ugly, just like that ute with that tacky bodykit.
that kit on the ute is smoother, more aerodynamic, and more closer to stock than the one on the R34 GTR? i beg to differ, the ute gets its ass kicked in looks and performance. the ute looks like the civic invader kit or whatever rice pos bumper its called.

I'll agree with that, the current HSV range looks as bad or worse than many of the ricers here.

[chris]

They only have one model that looks any good, the rest have bodykits with that tacked on look. They look best with conservatively understated looks.

[VQ]

Coupe 4, Grange and Senator look the best, but the rest match the aggr3essive look HSV went for, the front airdam is influenced by F1's and HSV ARE selling more cars then ever on the Y and Z series, so therefore, they must be doing soemthing right, otherwise it';s like the BMW scenaro, where they are ugly, but they are good at everything else, IMO, it looks fine, not my style, but I do prefer a stock Calais bodykit.

[chris]

Influenced by F1? ^_^ That's a bit of a stretch. These are 4 seater saloons and coupés, not long-wheelbase 600kg 1000bhp F1 open-wheelers. And they certainly aren't influenced by the BMW V12 engined variety.

Sometimes HSV's marketing people go a little bit too far. An M5 does have F1 heritage, with its 7 speed gearbox, and high revving V10 engine, but the HSV cars can not claim it. The only F1 heritage HSV had went kaputt - namely the Orange Arrows F1 team. =[

Arrows best year in recent times was when Damon Hill was with them. I remember that car to be underpowered, but blessed with great handling qualities - giving it a great showing at the Hungaroring.

[VQ]

No heritage Chris, but it is influenced by it, as I have argued in the past! And the front bumper isn't THAT bad, it is legal and desinged for a purpose, but I still prefr a V8 Supercar bodykit fopr racing and a senator kit or even a Calais kit, they look awsome.