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KyzrSoze
12-28-2004, 08:27 AM
Might the future hold driverless race cars?
John Phillips
October 2004


Lee Beard, NHRA Funny Car crew chief extraordinaire, called me from I-465, north of Indianapolis. "I'm driving this Viper truck thingamabobby," he said. "You know the one, with a huge Hurst shifter sticking out of the floor?"

"An SRT-10?" I asked.

"Well, could be," he said. "Wait. Soon as I get it into sixth gear, I can talk."

While I waited, I told him, "You can spin the tires all the way through second gear in that thing."

There was a pause, then he asked, "Why would I want to do that?"

Given his occupation, Beard is not big on wheelspin. Last May 23, one of his Dodge Stratus Funny Cars swallowed the quarter-mile in 4.713 seconds at 333.25 mph. In Funny Car action, neither of those statistics had ever been seen before. Such violence is hard to imagine. The car had attained 260 mph by half-track.

Beard, 51, is a man given to lengthy bouts of contemplation. Not long ago, he told me: "My decisions about clutch and fuel events are based on increments of time into a run. I know when they happen but not precisely where. Where is something I should know."

He thus began testing with global positioning systems. "What I basically wanted was fine-segment accel curves based on time and distance," he explained. "The NHRA has clocks at 60 feet, 330 feet, 660 feet, 1000 feet, and the finish. I needed something more like every 10 feet, preferably less. The goal was to tune the car for a steady pull over a long distance, rather than pulling super-hard for a spurt, then relaxing, then pulling hard again."

Given his car's performance this year, Beard must have learned something from the GPS, but he won't say what. "Somebody almost immediately ratted us out to the NHRA," he recalled, "and they made the system illegal [during races]. That took some of the interest out for me."

Beard is accustomed to such bans. In the late '80s, he installed traction control on a Top Fueler. The dragster was showing great promise until he was called in for a corrective interview. "They asked me, 'Do you know what this could mean for the sport?' I said, 'Yeah, it means I'll win this season.' They didn't laugh. But I understood their concern, because I did know."

In August 2003, I wrote a column about the importance of suppressing technology in racing. I came down on the side of The Flintstones—carburetors, stamped-steel wheels, Jimmy Spencer. I had hoped that readers who are mesmerized by computer technology would howl in protest, because I had such a cool rebuttal. No one howled. So here's my rebuttal anyway.

Back when CART (now Champ Car, as of '04) permitted traction control, at least two major teams—I promised not to reveal their names, but both were owned by men you'd recognize—went testing at a speedway whose name you'd also know. Their cars had been fitted with the latest GPS, which interfaced with the traction-control computer.

The drivers practiced until they were running laps that would place the cars at the front of the grid. Then the engineers programmed the traction-control computer to "memorize" engine speeds at every location the GPS could supply—13,500 rpm 50 feet before turn-in at Turn One, and 12,600 rpm 120 feet into the middle of Turn Two, and so forth, all around the track. Then they programmed the traction control to react to the GPS. At that point, the traction control wasn't watching for wheelspin. It was merely acting as an infinitely adjustable rev limiter, pulling spark and fuel out of the V-8 at given locations.

The driver went back out, flipped a switch that activated the system, and thereafter kept his foot flat. Never lifted. When the GPS "saw" the car going into Turn One, it told the traction control to reduce revs to 13,500, and when it saw the car entering the middle of Turn Two, it limited revs to 12,600, perfectly mimicking the driver's previous I-can't-go-any-faster lap. Except now he could turn such laps all day.

The idea, of course, was to log exhaustive data from every oval, and when the team later returned for real qualifying, well, it would be something akin to pimply fraternity brothers locked in PlayStation 2 combat.

At the time, there remained a zillion variables, of course. The driver had to be careful to steer pretty much the same line lap after lap—a line that might become unusable during the race, due to deteriorating tires and debris. And when the driver ran up on a clump of slower cars, he'd have to return to manual throttle control via a button on the steering wheel. But you can see where the world of unlimited technology was headed. Maybe it was lucky that CART was forced into a spec Ford engine, which made it easy to police the electronics.

"None of this is new," Beard reminded. "In F1, the engineers have already done all that, with far more precise plotting of the car's location—on the inside edge of a turn, outside edge, in the middle. And then they put a theoretical trace over that, showing what might be a quicker line or a faster exit, and they tell the driver, 'Hey, man, do this.' Because the shortest route through a turn isn't necessarily the fastest."

Unlimited-technology traction-control systems operate not only the throttle but also the brakes. All you'd have to do is take one blistering "sample" lap around the Nürburgring with the computer memorizing locations, throttle positions, engine revs, and braking points. And on the next lap, well, Juan Pablo's assignment is to steer and occasionally wave at picnickers.

Beard believes that more than one CART team not only tested with GPS but also tried to qualify with it, and he knows of an IRL team at Indy awhile back that was quietly busted for using a Delphi system "capable of landing a craft on Mars."

Okay, so none of this ever amounted to a driverless car. But the potential exists. Left unchecked, it soon would have meant that an F1 race wasn't Schumacher versus Räikkönen but Maranello computer programmer versus Woking computer programmer, both seated in an air-conditioned lounge somewhere in the infield. At race's end, the drivers would be hustled away and the programmers would spray Taittinger on each other's pocket protectors.

I could be wrong about all of this. It might have been Moët.

chris
12-28-2004, 08:55 AM
I say that if we start saying, no, this or that is too advanced, or too much assistance for the driver, then you must scrap all modernisation and go back to the days of the very first motor-car in 1886.

Make them race that.

The worst thing we can have is spec racing, or parity control racing. It's absolute nonsense. Advancement in motor-racing is a good thing. Without it, the motor-car wouldn't be where it is today.

KyzrSoze
12-28-2004, 07:41 PM
I see that point of view.

How is too much? I dont know.

I can tell you this. Technology that reduces the importance of a drivers skill risks boredom and disinterest in the fan base.

Justin Martin
12-28-2004, 07:53 PM
I can tell you this. Technology that reduces the importance of a drivers skill risks boredom and disinterest in the fan base.

I agree, at least when taken too far. Traction control is close to that line, traction control that knows where the car is on the track, as described in the article, is WAAAAAYYYY beyond that line. ;)

chris
12-28-2004, 09:39 PM
One of the main reasons we have traction control in F1 is because, or rather, in response to Michael Schumacher.

Effectively it is a way to give less skilled drivers some chance of battling with the German ace when the track gets wet. Surely everyone remembers back to the days of no traction control, and wet races where the opposition would be left standing by Schuey in a much inferior car, being in the region of 0.5 to 1 second a lap slower normally, but ending up 2.5 to 3.0 seconds a lap faster in the rain, just because of its driver having "alien" (to use a race-sim term) car control skills.

Okay, Niki Lauda once said, "oh it's no surprise, bad cars are always good in the rain", but that doesn't explain such a massive difference in lap times.

Lauda was of course referring to bad cars with the chassis flexing, being a little bit better in the wet, but in the dry, they just don't have enough consistency.

So it is case where you are having technology to prevent the racing getting boring.

Justin Martin
12-28-2004, 11:12 PM
Fair enough, though 99% of the time it's the other way around. ;)

VQ
12-29-2004, 12:53 AM
Or like with V8 Suercars and Ambrose compeltly beating everyone cos he had a semi dry setup and no one else did at the Sandown round.

KyzrSoze
12-29-2004, 03:49 AM
Here is another article that provides a few humorous solutions for the dilemma we are discussing. :D


Small things we can do to enliven car racing
John Phillips

Technology and racing are like ferrets and chickens: restless bedfellows. On the one hand, there's NASCAR, with its Flintstones technology and relentless wheel-to-wheel combat. On the other, there's Formula 1, with its Star Wars technology and an entertainment quotient just this side of narcolepsy.

That's okay. Some folks pay to see a competition between designers and engineers. Some pay to see a battle between drivers. Some pay to drink Schlitz malt liquor atop a Winnebago in the infield. In all cases, however, the trick is to entertain.

I have, over the years, excreted ideas on this subject. When the Trans-Am series looked grim, I suggested the SCCA get six or seven manufacturers to build race cars out of Altimas, Camrys, Accords, Focuses, and such. Prepare 24 cars, line up an equal number of competent drivers, then cycle them through the cars, weekend after weekend, until each had raced every brand twice. Let the manufacturers maintain the hardware, let the drivers get a taste for six or seven chassis, let the fans get a notion of who's best at adapting to vehicles resembling cars in showrooms. To defray costs, extract a $100,000 season-long fee from each driver, who, by the way, still brings his own crew but only to change tires and add fuel and introduce him to the race queen. The drivers get a cheap season of pro racing. The manufacturers get all their cars on every grid, piloted by the best and worst drivers equally.


I once mentioned this scheme to SCCA scrutineer Mitch Wright. "Do you have a valid pass for this area?" he asked. Then he backed away as if I had a viral infection.

Then I had an idea for enlivening Winston Cup racing, which, of course, needs enlivening like Detroit needs bonus carjackers. Find a deep-pockets sponsor—Coke or AT&T or Dick Cheney—to underwrite a season-long celebrity car. This car would be the best that money could buy, crewed by a top-flight team. At each race, it would be driven by any pro who happened to be idle that weekend—Al Unser Jr., Kimi Räikkönen, Tom Kristensen, Colin McRae, Tonya Harding. For this one entrant, NASCAR might have to guarantee a starting position, and it'd be wise to rescind the one-engine rule so the newcomer could practice every minute of Happy Hour and possibly right through a meal or two.

I once unburdened myself of this strategy to NASCAR's Mike Helton. He ran a comb through his inky pompadour, then asked, "Who are you, exactly?"

Enlivening F1 is trickier, in part because the bombastic administrators despise the irascible owners who loathe the aggressive TV crews who abhor the pretentious drivers who aren't signing autographs for the fenced-out fans. Still, here are my ideas, none solicited by Bernie or even by Bernie's wife:



- Require every car to use an identical rear wing at an identical angle of attack. (Hey, it works in the Indy Racing League.)

- Instead of a two-hour race, stage two one-hour races, with the grid of the second inverted. Or with the grid of the second established by drawing names out of a hat.

- Hand out FIA-mandated electronic engine-control modules, just as NASCAR hands out restrictor plates, but do it five minutes before practice, two minutes before qualifying, one minute before the race.

- Equip cars with identical manual transmissions and ratios. Ensure that downshifts require a skillful matching of revs.

- Each time he wins, reduce the size of a driver's visor until he is essentially blind.

- Establish a championship fund like NASCAR's, with bonus points—and cash—for qualifying, for the fastest lap, for the most laps led, for the most laps completed, for the most imaginative paint job.

- Fit all cars with heavy-duty batteries and starters so drivers can rejoin the fray. Insist that all cars that spin off or are disabled are towed to the pits, where repairs can be effected.

- Fit all cars with fenders or nerf bars so wheel-to-wheel contact is routinely survivable. Come to think of it, why do open-wheel cars still exist?

- Force every driver to consume two (2) Blatz beers before the start of every race. (Okay, okay. MADD won't like this. Replace the Blatzes with Miller Lites.)

- Forbid more than four men over the pit wall for any reason except to extinguish fires and to supply more beer.

- Mandate standard-issue steel brake rotors and pads.

- Install car phones and insist that each driver call his wife or mother twice per race. (Scroll the text of these conversations along the bottom of the TV screen.)

- Limit each car's downforce to a figure established by an independent aeronautics lab whose small-but-mobile wind tunnel stands ready for enforcement at every race.

- Ban baseball caps. Trust me on this.

- No new tires unless the originals have gone flat.

- For half of the season's second heats—with no warning whatsoever—force drivers to pilot a competitor's car, as selected randomly out of a hat. (Not a baseball cap.)

- Force teams with cigarette sponsors to smoke throughout the race.

- Invert season-end payouts so the greatest point-fund and TV monies flow to underdog Minardi, not overdog Ferrari.

- Arrange for IRS agents to report team budgets. Award points to the miserly, deduct points from the profligate.

- Settle all disputes by insisting that owners, drivers, and rulemakers fight bare-fisted at bike racks set up on the start/finish line. (To satisfy American tastes at the Indy F1 race, fists will be replaced by handguns purchased earlier downtown.)

- Under penalty of forced electrolysis, forbid drivers from spraying champagne or dumping Gatorade ever again.

Until recently, I enjoyed the idea of at least one racing series in which technology proceeded unchecked. Then I heard retired F1 driver Eddie Irvine say: "All the engines should be made of steel—$100,000 worth of rare alloys never made me a better driver, never improved the show."
More than any other sport, racing needs TV. That's because its playing field is too vast for fans to catch even half of any event's nuances. Right now, TV producers know how to cover wheel-to-wheel action, but they're nearly useless at showcasing a competition that pits Ferrari's aerodynamicists against McLaren's metallurgists.

Go watch the World of Outlaws. They don't have many rules, their technology is Cro-Magnon, but they sure put on a show.

I could be wrong about some of this. I hope Bernie calls.

VQ
12-29-2004, 02:53 PM
these are my favs:
Settle all disputes by insisting that owners, drivers, and rulemakers fight bare-fisted at bike racks set up on the start/finish line.
Each time he wins, reduce the size of a driver's visor until he is essentially blind.
Fit all cars with fenders or nerf bars so wheel-to-wheel contact is routinely survivable. Come to think of it, why do open-wheel cars still exist?
They are the best ones, but really, Technology and f1's go together, too bad they have bernie.

Justin Martin
12-29-2004, 03:11 PM
Heh, John Phillips' columns and articles are about the only reasons why I keep a subscription to Car and Driver. He's absolutely hilarious. ^_^

lewi
12-29-2004, 04:01 PM
Now, can anyone else see why Moto GP is so good now? Not too much technology going on there, talent is easy to see, and we respect the riders so much more.

I reckon we should abolish TC and any other real driving aids, they would help talent (what we all enjoy seeing) shine through. All of a sudden, we might see a few drivers in slower cars going quicker than some of the drivers in quicker cars going slower - it would be great to watch. Imo, I think we would see Fisichella doing really well =P

VQ
12-29-2004, 06:21 PM
Yeah, Schui would win even more.....

chris
12-29-2004, 07:19 PM
If he is winning even more because of that, then fine. Make the other drivers learn to drive their cars better.

Some former F1 drivers had no excuse to lose out to Schumi - especially when they drove far superior cars.

I also think the constant regulation changes do nobody any good. Things need to settle down a bit. The regulation changes end up making things even more costly.

chris
12-29-2004, 07:20 PM
Now, can anyone else see why Moto GP is so good now? Not too much technology going on there, talent is easy to see, and we respect the riders so much more.

I reckon we should abolish TC and any other real driving aids, they would help talent (what we all enjoy seeing) shine through. All of a sudden, we might see a few drivers in slower cars going quicker than some of the drivers in quicker cars going slower - it would be great to watch. Imo, I think we would see Fisichella doing really well =P

What's so good about Moto GP? One person or one bike winning all the time.. That isn't interesting. ;) It was even worse in the old days when Doohan and Honda were blitzing everyone.

lewi
12-29-2004, 08:03 PM
I'm talking about raw driver/rider talent shining through though. Sure the bike can help, but do you see active suspension, traction control, launch control on Moto GP bikes? Nope, and which has the better racing? imo, Moto GP, F1 was mighty boring for most races (a few exceptions, like Spa).

chris
12-29-2004, 08:24 PM
Yeah, traction control was apparently used on one of the recent Ducatis. If anything, the bikes are extremely advanced and costly machines. No small team has any hope of winning.

You've got to be a big manufacturer with huge amounts of money to be able to have a chance to win.

It's in the same position as F1. Eventually, manufacturers will pull out because development becomes too expensive, or because one rider/team wins too often.

Justin Martin
12-29-2004, 08:58 PM
MotoGP has the advantage that motorcycles can pass nearly anywhere. I remember watching a motorcycle race at Imola a year or two ago, and the two leaders swapped position several times per lap. Compare that to car races at Imola, where the only passing occurs when someone goes off the track or into the pits. ;) At that point, I realised that Imola is too chicaned for car races, but makes a great motorcycle track.

Wazza
12-29-2004, 09:22 PM
Good one. HEH. ^_^

lewi
12-29-2004, 11:07 PM
You all have good points! Maybe a budget cap will do! =P

VQ
12-29-2004, 11:37 PM
That's what those rules they want to implement in 07 will do, having a limit on the motor would make it A LOT cheaper, but ti might be slower, they should turbo them as well, with max boost at 1 bar.

blackice111288
12-30-2004, 10:43 PM
they should turbo them as well, with max boost at 1 bar. agreed:)

i agree with lewi on this one, i'd rather watch Moto GP all day versus nascar. i really cant stand nascar cause all they are doing is seeing who can follow the best line around a circle- wow, really entertaining.
i like watching F1 because the technology that goes into the cars is amazing and i know whipping those cars around those tracks that fast is not easy by any stetch of the imagination. i do agree that technology should have its limis though. this is the way i see it, if it gives one driver a mechanical advantage over another or enables a not so good driver to driver like the professional, i think it should be banned. if it focuses on a better driving technology instead of better driving skill, thats kind of like cheating to me.

VQ
12-31-2004, 12:03 AM
Ans yet you like cars like the nissan skyline gtr....

chris
12-31-2004, 12:22 AM
That's not high tech.. The Skyline GT-R is 14 year old technology. That's old stuff. :)

High tech now is like Enzo Ferrari, Ferrari F430, and those sorts of vehicles. Technology has really moved forward, even if some manufacturers seem to try and prove otherwise.

VQ
12-31-2004, 03:21 AM
It was futuristic, even though the Audi Quattro came up with the AWD and turbocharged thing, but the R32 through to the R34 had the same basic technology and compared to everything in it's day it WAS a high tech car, and compared to a Holden LS1 powered V8, it still has more gadgets. and then all you could use on a HSV Group A to control traction was the throttle, like the Mclaren F1.

Why am I getting worked up over this? I said it as a stir....

blackice111288
01-01-2005, 06:04 PM
Ans yet you like cars like the nissan skyline gtr....there is a major difference between the Skyline GTR and F1 tech. ok, the GTR has AWD and AWS and a couple of other pretty fancy bells and whistles, but that car is only going to do what the driver makes it. there is not one computer on the car that drives itself. there is no GPS controlled TCS systems that pinpoint locations on a race track and automatically slow it down or any thing like that.

. i do agree that technology should have its limis though. this is the way i see it, if it gives one driver a mechanical advantage over another or enables a not so good driver to driver like the professional, i think it should be banned. if it focuses on a better driving technology instead of better driving skill, thats kind of like cheating to me.i guess you are making that comment of off this statement i made. but oh well, compared to GM and holdens throwback tech, i guess that does make a Skyline seen like the Mellenium Falcon. but oh well, the skyline GTR is a better performing car anyways, and not only because of newer technology that is put into it.
BTW, the tech in a skyline does not make it easier for it to drive that a muscle car or something like that, if thats what you are trying to say. its as much of a beginners car as a M3 or Lancer Evo is.

VQ
01-02-2005, 12:56 AM
you can drive it faster around corners.... :p

chris
01-02-2005, 02:10 AM
Not quite. They aren't magic, they don't just go quick magically, if you are a hopeless driver, you'll still be slow. But what they do have is that extra traction when you need it. It's not always 4wd, only sometimes, and then the drive is proportioned as needed.

So it's the best of both rear drive and 4wd worlds, and it doesn't feature the unrelenting understeer of the modern Quattro equipped Audi cars.

But despite that, you still need some good driving skill.

VQ
01-02-2005, 03:37 AM
They have understeer because it's safer then oversteer isn't it? easier to control, which is why cars have understeer built into them.

blackice111288
01-02-2005, 04:49 PM
They have understeer because it's safer then oversteer isn't it? easier to control, which is why cars have understeer built into them.
race cars arent desinged to have understeer, which is why the GTR doesn't have much. Its all about quickness not easy driving. abd yes it can go quicker around corners, but that's because it has better handling, partly cause of its AWD and AWS system. but AWS isn't that exotic of a feature, the 240sx's had the Super Hicas AWS and preludes had AWS as an option in the early 90's, and now GM trucks are avalible with it.

VQ
01-02-2005, 11:19 PM
That's for manuveraility, I've seen most japanese luxury cars having it to, because they are sooo long that they need it to turn.