Caddilac coming to Australia? [Archive] - Racerplanet Network Forums

11-22-2004, 10:37 PM

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/portal/alias__carpointau/tabID__84014/ArticleID__6728/DesktopDefault.aspx

The models they want to include are these:

Model: Cadillac CTS

what is it: This is Cadillac's entry-level vehicle, designed to compete with European sedans like the BMW 3 Series and Audi A4. A new 150kW, 2.8-litre V6 engine was added to the range this year alongside the familiar 5.7-litre Gen III V8 engine. The CTS is rear wheel drive with a choice of six-speed manual or four-speed automatic transmission.

how much: $45-$55,000 (All prices are in Australian Dollars) competitors: BMW 3 Series, Audi A4, Jaguar X-Type, Mercedes-Benz C-class CarPoint USA rated the Cadillac CTS 7 out of 10. To find out why click here

Model: Cadillac STS

what is it: Larger than the CTS, the STS takes the fight to larger luxury sedans like the BMW 5 Series. It, too, is rear-wheel drive and features the same 190kW V6 engine as Commodore – with an optional 4.6-litre V8 from the Northstar engine family. It comes much higher equipped than the CTS, and includes Cadillac's MagnaRide suspension system (Magnetic Ride Control), leather interior and Bose sound system.

how much: $50-$60,000

competitors: BMW 5 Series, Audi A6, Jaguar S-Type, Mercedes-Benz E-class CarPoint USA rated the Cadillac STS 8 out of 10. To find out why click here

Model: Cadillac XLR

what is it: High-end luxury in a roadster body, the Cadillac XLR is the flagship of a revitalised range. It's a strict two-seater with a folding hardtop roof and the latest in engine and suspension technology. It borrows some underbody elements from the Corvette, and comes with a highly-tuned Northstar V8 engine delivering 240kW performance.

how much: $95,000

competitors: Mercedes-Benx SL-class, BMW 6 Series CarPoint USA rated the Cadillac XLR 8 out of 10. To find out why click here

Model: Cadillac SRX

what is it: Cadillac's new mid-sized luxury crossover vehicle combines some offroad abilities with onroad prowess and people-moving flexibility. It's offered in both rear-wheel drive and all-wheel drive form with Commodore's V6 engine and the Northstar 4.6-litre V8. Has massive potential in Toorak and Mosman.

how much: $48-$60,000

Now, I don't get why they would bring a Torana sized Caddilac, which is going to be relesed sooner or later here, for a higher cost, aimed at the same market, with the same engines as a commodore, the large one I don't get either, cos we have the Statesman/Caprice range, and that holds it's own against the BMW's and merc's and Jag's, and the XLR, well that one is ok, and hell no to the 4x4!!!

But if they brought just the XLR, maybe, otherwise don't bloody bother Mr. Mooney, your dreamin' we don't need these models, but a Corvette would be nice.

chris

11-22-2004, 11:28 PM

The CTS is a pointless waste of time.

Our own TT36 concept car, and the Commodore would do a better job, at a cheaper price. From what I've heard, CTS is bigger than a 3 series on the outside, but smaller inside.. Australians won't pay more for less.

And the STS' big problem is the HSV models sitting around the same price range. And they have 290kW, and do 160mph+, while taking 5 people in comfort. And they are a lot more desirable. Just look at their resale value as proof of that.

They are dreaming if they think Cadillac will sell to anyone but homesick Americans currently living in Australia.

chris

11-23-2004, 12:08 AM

And this is another potential rival for the Caddy STS:

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1805/article.html

And I know which one I'd choose. I find this:

http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i18/1805_7mg.jpg

More appealing than a 4.6 litre Caddy engine.

11-23-2004, 12:34 AM

LOL, that motor is also in any luxury Ford, and in the trucks, and in the ford supercar, but you are a ford fan so yeah.

And the STS is meant to compete with the 5 series in cost too.

wello

11-23-2004, 02:51 AM

Yep thats the way to win sales
put ANOTHER UGLY:Puke: CAR :ack:
on the Market

11-23-2004, 04:30 AM

well as long as they realize they can't really sell it here and that yank Moony goes away and we get a decent non American CEO, like we had before, it will be good.

blackice111288

11-23-2004, 01:57 PM

i personally dont see whats the big upraor about selling caddies in AU. The CTS is not a bad car by any defintion, my moms aunt has one and its one of the smoothest riding american biult cars i've been in. Its fairly spaicious in the back. my legs were kinda close to the driver's seat, but im used to it being so tall and every thing. its no better in my uncles boat, i mean '71 delta 88. trust me, ive been in worse.

chris

11-23-2004, 06:38 PM

Oh I don't mind if they sell them, good luck to them for trying, but it's kind of a waste of money.

The type of buyers they are aiming it at won't buy it anyway because it's American, and secondly, because George W is the leader of the USA.

Also, at $45K to $55K in Australia, CTS has to battle with the Impreza WRX, and the brilliant Subaru Legacy. And you can factor in the Alfa 156 as well. And consider Ford Falcon XR6 Turbo, Ford XR8, along with the Holden Commodore SS (along with the Falcon XR6T and XR8 it is a traditional favourite with buyers).

11-23-2004, 09:59 PM

And the fact that the Torana is most likely to be relesed sooner of later, and this car will have EXACTLY the same engines as both the commodore and Torana, even if the engines are the American version.

It would be fine Blackice, if we didn't already have or own perfectly good products, that's the point. YOu said XR6T and Xr8 twice chris, stop advertising the falcons! Holden is selling almost selling double (or so) the amount since the VZ was relesed...

wello

11-25-2004, 02:04 AM

blackice111288

11-25-2004, 08:21 PM

11-25-2004, 09:39 PM

im kinda confused. if Holden and Caddillac are GM owned, they share almost all the same parts, am i right? so why is it making a difference were its built or sold? its all the same thing with different names and sheet metal. just my 2 cents.....

Ok Colin, for the record, Holdens, other then the driveline, are designed exclusivly here, i don't know where you got the idea of part sharing, they aren't like the japs like Toyota and Lexus sharing parts, they are independent of each other in designs (but the next platform is shared, but is different for each country)

The whole thing with it being built is because Australia makes world class cars ourselves and bringing the Caddilac's in the same markets as holden to Australia says that our products are no good, which isn't true, our locally products are excelent in design etc etc.

That comment you made is so amazingly ignorant, I mean, really, they are all just the same thing with different sheetmetal.... Do you think they all go to the same design studio or something? No, Holden design their own stuff, or get something from another GM owned company and modify it for Australia, if they have to, otherwise, like with the next Commodore platform, it will be shared around the world and holden is doing a lot of design for it.

It's like with the Monaro going to amercia as the GTO, people don't like it cos it's Australian, or they don't like the look of it, that's our style, subtle, Caddilacs are not that style that the holden's have.

bogs

11-26-2004, 03:17 PM

............
That comment you made is so amazingly ignorant, I mean, really, they are all just the same thing with different sheetmetal.... How stupid can you get?..............

Maybe you should answer your own question , Vq , that entire line was completely unnecessary .

Its one thing to point out something that someone else may not know , but sinking to questions like that are never called for .

Justin Martin

11-26-2004, 04:08 PM

Maybe you should answer your own question , Vq , that entire line was completely unnecessary .

Its one thing to point out something that someone else may not know , but sinking to questions like that are never called for .

I agree 100%

chris

11-26-2004, 04:09 PM

Difference between them is Caddy makes good cars for the US market, while we make good cars that suit the needs of our market.

The massive problem for Caddy which they can not answer is the fact that the people who they want to sell cars to won't buy them because they are not made in Europe, and they aren't Alfa Romeo, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Audi, Jaguar or Volkswagen.

Faced with that, you would think it'd be a waste of time, money and effort even trying to sell Caddy cars here.

Why not just focus on improving the Holden brand image even further. Holden might not make the most expensive cars, but if you live in Australia, you'll know they have an image many car companies would kill for. Holden is recognised as building good value, okay-looking, practical and fun to drive cars.

And they have good resale value as well. Cadillac would face the same problem as Lexus did when it was brand new, since it is an unknown brand, trying to break into the most difficult portion of the market. Art and science means nothing here.

11-27-2004, 02:38 AM

Caddilac is known here, mainly from the wild cars from the 50's and 60's, they have history here, but the current models are just not different enough and the fact Holden doesn't need to be losing competition to it's own sister company, unlike America, where it can afford to have 3 companys owned by the same people selling slightly differet cars competiting against each other, we can't do that, because our market isn't big enough, and a company called Toyota.

Edit: Yeah sorry to you Colin, I was a bit fired up. But it's understandable.

wello

11-27-2004, 04:52 AM

we don't need Caddilac's here
Holden and Ford make cars that suit
what our market wants is this GM USA 's way
of repaying us for giving them the Monaro
if it is I think we're getting the bad end of the deal :p
we give them a very nice looking car and they gives
the ugly sisters

chris

11-27-2004, 05:04 AM

Hehe Wello, well put. :)

I can't say I'm much of a fan of the way modern Cadillac cars are styled. Just too blunt edged. The blunt brick like styling went out of fashion with things like the exceptionally boxy Volvo 760, the nasty 440 and the morbidly obese W140 series Benz S-Class (and CL).

blackice111288

11-27-2004, 08:59 PM

Edit: Yeah sorry to you Colin, I was a bit fired up.
no problem:cool:

11-27-2004, 11:10 PM

still, you have to be corrected somehow.

blackice111288

11-28-2004, 05:16 AM

i'll make sure i remember this for when you say something stupid (which isn't that rare of an occasion)^_^ :p ;)

all in fun

Cheyenne

11-28-2004, 05:45 AM

i'll make sure i remember this for when you say something stupid (which isn't that rare of an occasion)^_^ :p ;)

all in fun
Uh-oh! VQ is in trouble ^_^

After reading the weblink, it seems like Holden is sort of being forced into this deal. I think Holden will be able to move some Caddy's, even if it's just for their uniqueness in the market place. At the very least I hope this doesn't hurt Holden in any way.

I'm not a big caddy fan, especially of the styling - which seemed to be some of that neo-gothic angularity... still no self-respecting style-conscious vampire would be seen (un)dead in one ;)

11-28-2004, 10:13 PM

Vampires would rather fly, or take a Holden Caprice hearse :p

chris

11-28-2004, 11:06 PM

But those are going all angular too, so they'd have to choose a Ford. ^_^

11-28-2004, 11:18 PM

What? the WL is angular? The rear is nice, it's meant to be sharp, better then a 7 series style bum, but the BA Fairlane looks weird, because it's just a BA front and rear on the NH Fairlane body. And the NH looked better.

KyzrSoze

11-29-2004, 11:26 AM

I think that it would be a mistake to underestimate the value of another player in your market. It may well be that a Cadillac will not sell well in Aussie land – it was the same in the USA when the Japanese first started selling here. The general consensus was that they were not welcome here (especially among those who remembered WWII). Over time Toyota, Nissan, and Honda bothered to learn our market. They changed minds by producing a solid product.

I understand the pride that you guys have in your native cars. It is a well earned pride to be sure. Don’t fall prey to GM marketing, however. The Monaros/Commodores are fine automobiles, but they are not Aussie born and bred. They are based on an old Opel platform and filled with engines of US design and origin. Surely they received a body makeover (much like the US GTO) and further development and suspension tuning over time, but they are not by any stretch Australian inventions. We Americans have already seen this platform here in the form of the Cadillac Catera. It did not sell well because of its soft suspension tuning, relative weight, and V6 only power. My point is that many cars nowadays are an amalgam of international parts and design cooperation, especially those under the GM umbrella. This certainly does not lessen the quality of the cars, and I wish very much that I could buy a Commodore here in the USA.

Do not dismiss the value of the Cadillac in your market. It may be received better that you imagine. Cadillac has designs on become a more internationally recognized car builder and they will give you what you want if given the chance. For starters the CTS-V has the LS6 motor with 400HP and 395 lbft torque – right on par with your current performance choices (there is also a higher performance version on the way that will be using the newest Corvette engine). It is also based on an entirely new platform that will be stiffer and quieter than the current competition. The interior should be a little more upscale as well. It is a brand new model, so some development pains can be expected, but out of the box it has already shown itself to be a formidable foe against the European competition.

Styling? That is a subjective thing of course, but the Caddy design is growing on me. I do understand if others absolutely hate it.

Look at it this way - new blood in the mix will only put pressure on Holden to make their next Holden/Commodore a better car, so whether Cadillac sells or not, you still win.

11-30-2004, 01:02 AM

We already have high performance Commodore, they are HSV's and now have the Ls2 motor in them.

The next commodore is going to be using similar suspension design etc as the CTS, but it is a bigger car, the Torana is a CTS sized car and has more interior room etc.

We don't need another car with the same engines but with a smaller interior which costs more and is 100% non Australian made compared to a Commodore based vehicle which is 70% Australian made isn't it? and more like 87% for the V6 because that is Australian Made and the LS2 apparantly will become Australian made too.

Our cars are VERY different to the Caddilacs, they handle better and are suited to our less unsealed roads compared to the sealed roads everywhere that america has. If you come down here you would realise that a Caddilac is not needed, because we have our luxury Holdens, the Berlina, Calais (SWB models) and Statesman and Caprice (LWB models). And they are bigger then a CTS and a competition to the 3 series cost cars too, particulary the 1 series cost car now. Hmm, what would you get, a low power base model BMW, or a top of the range Holden? I'd go for the Holden myself as I would sacrifice the badge brand for it.

KyzrSoze

11-30-2004, 07:24 AM

Ok, you win.

Holden has a model for every category and that should be enough for anyone. No one wants anything that looks or feels remotely different than that. “No chocolate for us thanks, we already have Vanilla.” :rolleyes:

In all seriousness, look at it from Cadillac’s perspective. There is a huge advantage in developing its rear drive performance models in Aussieland, the playground of V8 performance sedans. A training camp, if you will, on the way to Europe and world car status. Maybe that sounds improbable to you, but they have to start somewhere. BMW and Mercedes weren’t born as world brands.

More choice is not a waste of Australians time.

12-01-2004, 03:56 AM

Lol, they have competition, it's called Ford and their Falcon, the Falcon is an excelent product and used just as broadly as the Commodore platform, we have 2 large RWD cars, Holden currently has the Vectra, but in the future will have what is known atm as the TT36 Torana Concept, which is CTS size, we have a LWB Commodore, similar in size to a 7 series, but for 1/3 of the price.

Australia was a test grounds for toyota in the 70's but that was different, they introduced something new, Caddilac won't introduce anything new, we already have world class RWD cars, even if the IRS isn't that good compared to the Jaguar based IRS in the Falcon (why re-invent the wheel) we will be using modified CTS suspension (like cast rather then alloy, so it's strong) parts on the next generation Commodore, we will have all the good bits from cars like caddilac because Holden isn't really that big a company, making a max of about 200,000 cars a year, we don't need more competition.

wello

12-01-2004, 04:01 AM

I can see your point KyzrSoze

The only bitch I have with the caddys is that they are so god dam
ugly if you have a look at the Holden or Ford websites for Oz except
for the euro crap they both sell here the Dunnydore and Falcons are nice looking cars .
Holden and Ford both make cars that would make Caddys blush
Belive it or not Australia is not the kindest country on cars highways in the US can make our best highway's look like goat tracks .
But then again people that live in the city don't think theres life over the great divide ^_^ .
I work in the trucking game and most truck companys make models just for Australian Conditions

If Caddys come here well and good I wish them luck and hope it works for them if it doesn't we told them so :p

12-01-2004, 04:43 AM

Our golf is quite good off road, even compared to a Statesman apparantly, maybe because of the fact the person who owns the statesman who rode in the golf doesn't drive it hard, or that fact ours is manual, or dad's a bit of an insane, but safe driver :p But regardless, our VW's have survuved every road we have thrown at it, but I've heard of mercs breaking power steer pumps on gravel roads etc.

When Holden brought the Original Commodore over which used the Senator front and Rekord tub, they had to redesign the whole sealing system, the suspension setup, under body bracing and stuff, because on our roads, it just fell apart, that was in 1977 though, but still, our Commodore would be a very different car to drive then the Caddilac Catera or whatever it is, for a start, the VT (first gneration of Holdens based on that car) was 85% redesigned I think, the roof line and door shape are similar, but they were enlarged and redesigned even if they look the same, our cars are a lot tougher.

Another example, when the first Falcon came ot australia, straight from America in RHD form, they fell apart like anything, so Ford Australa had the redevelop the suspension and underside to handle the roads.

KyzrSoze

12-01-2004, 07:44 AM

@Wello
Belive it or not Australia is not the kindest country on cars highways in the US can make our best highway's look like goat tracks .
But then again people that live in the city don't think theres life over the great divide .
I work in the trucking game and most truck companys make models just for Australian Conditions.

Hiya Wello,
Haven’t you seen any episodes of the old “Dukes of Hazzard” TV show? All of the roads in the USA look like those, and we all drive like the redneck Duke boys. We can handle a few of your rough roads. ^_^ :D ;)

Yes, I have seen Falcons and Commodores, and they are good looking rides. I would likely own something like that if it were sold here in the US. The last truly comparable car sold here was the Chevy Impala SS, but production ceased in 1996. My father in law owns two of them and they are a joy to drive.

@VQ

When Holden brought the Original Commodore over which used the Senator front and Rekord tub, they had to redesign the whole sealing system, the suspension setup, under body bracing and stuff, because on our roads, it just fell apart, that was in 1977 though, but still, our Commodore would be a very different car to drive then the Caddilac Catera or whatever it is, for a start, the VT (first gneration of Holdens based on that car) was 85% redesigned I think, the roof line and door shape are similar, but they were enlarged and redesigned even if they look the same, our cars are a lot tougher.

Another example, when the first Falcon came ot australia, straight from America in RHD form, they fell apart like anything, so Ford Australia had the redevelop the suspension and underside to handle the roads.

Yeah, the old Falcon (I assume you mean from the 1960’s) was not a strong car. Of course they stopped selling Falcons here in the 1960’s, but the Mustang continued on the same platform. It was never considered to be a structurally strong car either – good looking and relatively lightweight, but not exceptionally tough.

I would be interested to see if such enhancements were needed in this day and age. If Holden will also have new cars based on the GM Kappa platform, it seem to me tha only suspension tuning would be necessary to meet Aussie needs. Let me know if you read anything about that.

Australia was a test grounds for toyota in the 70's but that was different, they introduced something new, Caddilac won't introduce anything new, we already have world class RWD cars, even if the IRS isn't that good compared to the Jaguar based IRS in the Falcon (why re-invent the wheel) we will be using modified CTS suspension (like cast rather then alloy, so it's strong) parts on the next generation Commodore, we will have all the good bits from cars like caddilac because Holden isn't really that big a company, making a max of about 200,000 cars a year, we don't need more competition.

Don’t sweat it too much. We Americans are used to having many GM brands sharing platforms and having similarly sized cars, as you are about to experience. Typically the brands are differentiated by styling differences and target markets. For example, the Caddy in your market may share platform and engine with a Commodore; but the Caddy will obviously look different, have a different level of equipment – things that wont be offered on a Commodore, have more sound deadening insulation, different suspension tuning (maybe even magnetic ride control or some other electronic gadgetry). In short they will differentiate the cars through personality and equipment levels. The Cadillac will sell to the person who a) like much about the Commodore, but wishes it were not so hard edged sporting. B) thinks “everyone drives a Commodore, I just want something a little different.”

blackice111288

12-01-2004, 07:49 PM

12-01-2004, 10:11 PM

It's futile to continue arguing, but the fact is, we have cars of the same spec with a history, unlike the Caddilacs which are only known as cool cars in the 50's and 60's then land barges from then on.

bogs

12-02-2004, 12:40 AM

It's futile to continue arguing.......

Thank GAWD you finally arrived at that conclusion Vq ^_^ In fact , I think you deserve some kind of award for coming to that . As a personal favor to you , I'm going to suggest to the president of GM ( a close personal friend of mine , of course ) that they not send you anything but Caddilac Cateras' . You know , the " Caddy that ZIGS " ^_^
( Zagging , of course , will cost you *extra* , its an option ) :racer:

wello

12-02-2004, 02:42 AM

Hi KyzrSoze
of course Hi have seen the Dukes but they were using real cars
not the tin foil rides of today :p

Quote:
It's futile to continue arguing.......

Thank GAWD you finally arrived at that conclusion Vq In fact , I think you deserve some kind of award for coming to that . As a personal favor to you , I'm going to suggest to the president of GM ( a close personal friend of mine , of course ) that they not send you anything but Caddilac Cateras' . You know , the " Caddy that ZIGS "
( Zagging , of course , will cost you *extra* , its an option )

^_^ ^_^ ^_^

one thing if they bring caddys here at least the steering wheel will be on the correct side of the car :p

12-02-2004, 04:20 AM

about time :p

KyzrSoze

12-02-2004, 06:56 AM

It's futile to continue arguing.......

I think I missed something. I thought that we were just having a discussion, and you saw it as a pointless arguement. The Aussie perspective is interesting to me. Sorry if it was only irritating to everyone else. :(

Caddilacs which are only known as cool cars in the 50's and 60's then land barges from then on.

That is exactly why I am excited about the CTS-V. Finally we in the US have access to the kind of car that you guys have - a domestic V8 performance sedan. And Cadillac can make a good name for itself again. :)

12-02-2004, 09:49 PM

The thing is, we have a High performance arm of Holden -www.hsv.com.au with the LS2 motors different to the engine in the Holdens which are LS1's and they have been around for about 16 years now, with a very strong history, Ford has had three High performance companys in the same time, SVO, Tickford and now FPV.

blackice111288

12-03-2004, 04:06 PM

i think someone's afraid of a little US competition.....^_^

12-03-2004, 09:32 PM

No, the competition is pointless, because really, we have enough competition as it is from the Japs.

chris

12-04-2004, 12:11 AM

The worst thing you can have is too many brands from one company fighting over the same market areas.

If you want to sell some Cadillac models, then you must kill some Holden models, because either one will sell, or the other will, but not both. Some of those Cadillac models are trying to sell into market areas too close to what Holden (and HSV) are already selling into, with fairly good success.

I don't see the economic sense in chopping that down by bringing in another rival brand, from the same company. If you've got a successful product, then you do everything you can to support it.

The costs of establishing another brand also don't really make sense, when something else from your company is already covering the target markets quite well. You should instead invest that money where the brand is already on sale, and continue to support it in those countries.

In any case, what happened in North America with GM in particular was quite a bad thing, you had too many brands, and they were often not clearly defined, and in some cases they overlapped into each others market areas - and there you have the problem.

It's especially bad when two cars are essentially identical, but one gets a totally different brand name, and the marketing chops down the other version of the car sold by the other brand.

One of the reasons Holden and Ford do so well here is because they are just Holden and Ford. And you have a solid marketing message that permeates through the entire range of each company here.

12-04-2004, 03:57 AM

Hear Hear Chris!

That's what happened with GM as Chris said, before the fuel crisis in the 70's GM could do no wrong, same with Holden, i've noticed that Holden don't do major changes very often, but Ford will do one every model, mainly because Holden is successfull and stays successful, and when it isn't they won't do much radical or spend out of their budget to improve, when GM was the biggest company with little competition, the whole Pontiac Vs Chevrolet Vs buick Vs Oldsmobile VS Caddilac thing worked, even if all the chasis were shared, the engine were each companys and they all had slightly different markets, like Caddilac being the highest and Chevrolet being the lowest, until the 3rd gen f body came out, the F Body's still had pontiac and Chevy made motors with different designs, same with the G-Body, but then they did share, so they all got eh same v8 and crappy little 6 and the then undeveloped 3.8 buick motor, which was further developed when it went in the 1988 cars, in FWD form, which is what Holden used and modified for themselves to be RWD and longitudal as well. And our motors are different to the Americans in some setups, so they aren't identical, and our engines other then the V8 now, is made here.

KyzrSoze

12-04-2004, 04:53 AM

Agreed. With both of you. :)

If Cadillac is to be a viable brand in your country, it will be because Caddilac distinguishes itself in some positive and different way. The best way would be through higher luxury content and different styling. Along with the price difference - that should work. If Cadillac doesn't differentiate itself enuff, then they deserve to and will die (in a business sense of course). If they steal from Holden, then Holden probably needed to improve anyway and will do so to hold market share.

I have a rather selfish view of things. In my opinion, Holden should come to the US and sell their best. I would love to see Chevy and Ford get crushed because they had not affordable V8 mid-sized sedans ready to compete. I like Chevrolet, but I dont want them protected from a potentially better product, especially if it is one that I want to buy. :)

chris

12-04-2004, 05:44 AM

Oh, we'd love to send our cars to the USA as Holden, but GM management, and the North American brands would throw a big tantrum. ;) They'd be nearly on the floor kicking their feet and screaming.. ^_^

I guess my message before, to distill it more clearly is that for GM, the worry is that you'll end up spending a lot more money, to maybe sell only the same amount of cars in total. And that is bad business.

The biggest problem I can see facing the CTS in particular is the Alfa Romeo 156. It is one of the best small 4 door saloons on the market. I don't know how they make the 156 drive so well, because a front drive shouldn't, but it does. It is amazing.

The German small saloons in comparison are either boring (A4, C-Class), or ugly (BMW 3 series E90), putting them all off my shopping list, if I were looking for that sort of car (which I'm not). None of the German cars mentioned have the same tailor made fit/feel as the Alfa Romeos either. They all have more generic interiors, rather like Toyotas in comparison

When you sit in a 156, you are firmly gripped by the seats (perfect for fast driving), you see in front of you the tachometre with the 7300rpm limit marked on it, and the speedometre, both of them in their own seperate round sections (a traditional Alfa Romeo theme). The dash sweeps around you, with more dials for other things like olio, benzina, acqua set roughly half way down, but in perfect line of sight when you glance over to look at them. The gear-shift is just in the right place, as are the pedals.The steering wheel easily adjusts to just the right position. It feels like the car shrinks around you.

Other things like the climate control are designed to be adjusted quickly and easily. You can tell the 156 was built by people who like to drive quickly.

The best one in my opinion, and the one I was talking about is the 156 2.5L V6, (the short-stroke V6 engine) with a short-ratio 6 speed manual gearbox. That engine has 145kW, 222Nm@5000rpm and a 7300rpm rev-limit. Words can not describe the sound it makes. Obviously this engine was designed to rev, and it loves to do that. The torque is a high revs, but the nature of it makes it a pleasure to rev it along, and the gearbox with its close ratios complement the revvy nature of the engine very well.

You can have a lot of fun (especially on a twisting road) while not going absurdly quickly. (Although it will do 230km/hr - not bad for 2.5 litres!)

Then you had even the old 2.0L twin-spark 4 cylinder in the original 156, when floored, from outside it almost sounded like one of Holden's 5.7L V8 engines. :) You are expecting to see perhaps a Commodore SS, or a Monaro going quickly, but instead this little 156 is howling along, the little twin-spark inline-4 belting out as robust a howl as it can manage. You can't believe 4 cylinder engines can sound that good. :)

blackice111288

12-04-2004, 08:15 PM

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I guess my message before, to distill it more clearly is that for GM, the worry is that you'll end up spending a lot more money, to maybe sell only the same amount of cars in total. And that is bad business.
well, since selling Caddy's means selling less Holdens, GM wont have to invest as much money into producing too many holdens. they will most likely calculate the projected sales figures of the caddilacs they plan to sale, and what ever that figure is, they wont produce that number of holdens.

Simple math once you think about it. Since some of the Caddies that GM is putting on sale in Au are mainly more luxurious models of already existant Holdens, they can charge more for the Caddilac version. So the number of Holdens they dont produce will actually make them money, since they can sell basically the same car under a different name for more money. but, thats also if they can reach their projected saled figures. remember the Pontiac Aztek?
they planned to sell 75,000 of those things, but really only ended up selling 11,000. you know how much $$ they lost over that? Hopefully yall Aussies have a taste for caddies, or GM will Be flushing its cash down the toilet again.
They really arent bad cars though, they should sale pretty well.

12-04-2004, 10:26 PM

Hopefully yall Aussies have a taste for caddies, or GM will Be flushing its cash down the toilet again.

That's the thing, everyone is over Caddilac's the Holden's have more then enough of the same features that the Caddilacs have in a much cheaper package, the Caprice is designed to compete with a 7 series for crying out loud! It has more back seat space then the big Germans! And for 1/3 the price too!!

Gm predidcted they would sell 18000 GTO's this year, and they have sold a lot less and had to put on a new bonnet and bodykit and engine to make the American Market happy, maybe if Caddilac toned down the style a little, and actually was compleltly reputable (I know people who love Caddilacs but hate the new ones because they aren't different). Also, we have a lot of other company's to comepte with as it is, mostly form Asia.

bogs

12-05-2004, 05:42 AM

That's the thing, everyone is over Caddilac's the Holden's have more then enough of the same features that the Caddilacs have in a much cheaper package, the Caprice is designed to compete with a 7 series for crying out loud! It has more back seat space then the big Germans! And for 1/3 the price too!!

Ya know , thats about the 5th or 6th way you've said the same thing ( but not really counting ;) ) . If thats the case , I dont see why you would be worried , really . It isn't your money GM is throwing away < if they throw any away > so wheres the problem?

It will either sell or not , people will either want it or not , and GM will either keep selling it there or not depending I'm sure on how well it does . It seems a bit like your blowing this all out of proportion . :rolleyes:

KyzrSoze

12-05-2004, 11:12 AM

@chris
Oh, we'd love to send our cars to the USA as Holden, but GM management, and the North American brands would throw a big tantrum. They'd be nearly on the floor kicking their feet and screaming..

Very true. GM whining about a GM company coming to compete. ^_^

The lack of success with the GTO/Monaro is deceiving. If the 4 door version would been brought over instead, the story would have been much different.

The biggest problem I can see facing the CTS in particular is the Alfa Romeo 156. It is one of the best small 4 door saloons on the market. I don't know how they make the 156 drive so well, because a front drive shouldn't, but it does. It is amazing.

The German small saloons in comparison are either boring (A4, C-Class), or ugly (BMW 3 series E90), putting them all off my shopping list, if I were looking for that sort of car (which I'm not). None of the German cars mentioned have the same tailor made fit/feel as the Alfa Romeos either. They all have more generic interiors, rather like Toyotas in comparison

I had never seen the 156 before, so looked it up. It is a nice looking car, and if the features and driving dynamics are as you describe, I could go for one.

In description it sounds like the Acura TSX sold in the USA. It is supposedly based on the european Honda Accord, but is tuned and marketed here as a virtual 4 door Honda S2000. Only 200 H.P. but as you describe "You can have a lot of fun (especially on a twisting road) while not going absurdly quickly.":)

BTW - Do BMW drivers there regard Commodores as unrefined muscle machines?

chris

12-05-2004, 02:18 PM

Hehe, yes. ;) (mostly the badge slave type).

Those are the type that would purchase anything as long as it had a BMW badge on it.

KyzrSoze

12-05-2004, 06:27 PM

blackice111288

12-05-2004, 06:28 PM

there must be enough people in AU that like caddies if GM is considering selling them there.

on the GTO, its competing with the EVO 8, STi, which are both cheaper *only by a few grand* and are faster with better handling and much better fuel milage, plus they are appealing to a broader audience than the GTO. I mean think about it, import enthusiast over here have been waiting for ages for Mistu and Subie to unleash their rally bred pocket rockets over here, all that anticipation leads to sales. not to mention all the parts already availible in the Land of the Rising Sun to turn these things into potent street warriors. Not to discredit the GTO/Monaro, it is an awesome car, but there wasnt as big as a anticipation for it over here as for the Evo and Sti.

12-05-2004, 06:45 PM

That's the whole thing that I like about muscle, there is always things not thought of, it isn't chequebook engineering like it is on the japanese cars.

blackice111288

12-05-2004, 07:14 PM

i dunno about that, you can buy just about any thing you want to for most if not all the popular muscle cars over here, from conversion/restoration kits, drag motors and transmissions, just about anything you can think of. theyve been around for about 40 years, they make everything for them, so i dunno how you are coming to that conclusion

chris

12-05-2004, 07:15 PM

Isn't it? Without GM's big fat cheque-book, it wouldn't exist to start with. ;)

Everything now is cheque-book engineering. Monaros have fancy engine management systems, traction control, speed-limiter devices, ABS brakes, power steering, fancy climate control etc, all of that never existed in a traditional muscle car, and if something should go wrong with the mechanicals, or worse, the electronics, it's not going to be your simple old style repair effort that you can handle yourself.

And of course, right from the start the engineering is cheque-book stuff, from the purchase of Alias|Wavefront Auto-studio, where the car is designed. If you forget a hole in the chassis where wiring has to go through and it gets through to the prototype stage, it costs big dollars to correct the problem!

It's no different to the Japanese cars. So it has pushrods and many litres, that's about the only difference. The electronics are just as sophisticated (or prone to error, if you prefer to hate electronics).

So in summary, it all costs lots and lots of money.

12-06-2004, 03:54 AM

But, with imports and stuff, every idea has been explored, I can still see new ideas being employed on any V8 everyday, getting it to rev past 10,000 is still an artform which hasn't been done very often, things like that, manifolds are still custom made, even if there is a off the shelf one that does the same job, dasboards are completly stripped and a line of auto meter gauges replace the old dash. It's endless and while engine parts usually aren't custom, there is a lot of custom stuff going around, want to make 1200hp? you definetly need a full custom manifold and exaust setup, whereas the japanese from what I've read, you buy whole exaust systems and fit them. Everyone know what to do to get more power, even if you can't afford the extra 20 grand for that upgraded turbo and manifold setup etc.

blackice111288

12-06-2004, 01:57 PM

whereas the japanese from what I've read, you buy whole exaust systems and fit them.
Borla doesnt make complete exauhsts for a Chevelle SS? you cant but Hooker headers for a 69 Comaro? Flow Master doesnt make exhausts for almost every musle car you can think of? You cant go and buy a prebuilt to your specs 454 for your sleeper 60's nova? really, as in terms of parts, and ways to make power there really is no difference in the availibility of parts for muscle cars than there is imports. Street bred V8's dont go past 10,000 rpm's cause they'll explode.

you've never seen custom manifold's on imports? please tell me you've seen at least a custom intercooler.you know the huge four inch thick 4 row thing you see on that sleeper every now and then with the big welds that scream that its not no factory job. in all seriousness, i've been on both sides of this game, there's just as many parts for my 1990 honda civic as there is for the guy's 5.0 down the street, or for any year comaro ever made. I guess i should suscribe you a free issue of summit magazine for Christmas:)

12-06-2004, 09:23 PM

Remeber, Australia, headers are a given, but full exaust systems, are never done here from a factory, because simply, our market isn't big enough and the whole the 454's didn't come in any aussie car means we also need our own design exaust because the floorpan is different.

As far as I know, Flow master only make muffler's and the rest of the exaust system is put together by hand.

yes I've seen 4 core intercoolers, but I don't see the point in having something so thick, really, I'd use aftercooling which is just water cooling basically, less protusive and really, getting a custom made intercooler isn't that fancy, it's just a radiator, and most people don't actually design the intercooler's to be optimum cooling, just to look cool, because there is more then one design of intercooler.

Also, i don't look at grey imports, they all look the same and all have the same farting noise, and I also have never attended a Saloon show, because Static exibits suck, and the only imports I've seen at easternats or a non static car show, were stock Silvia's and as I said, having a 4 core intercooler is a waste of space, the air would be hot by the fourth core and the radiotor would get no cool air because the intercooler blocks the way.

chris

12-06-2004, 10:03 PM

:D

Im not a badge fanatic for any one make, but I have to admit that if asked to choose a daily driver to live with forever, I'd quickly choose an E39 (2001-2003) M5. Black, 6 speed. I'd have a few Dinan mods done I guess, but overall I'd be happy. :)

Maybe I'll start a new thread entitled "Choose three cars to live with forever".

I could name 3:

Alfa Romeo 156 2.5L (red)
Ferrari F355 Berlinetta (silver)
Mclaren F1 (dark green or blue)

F355 is still magical, and the Ferrari I lust after. It has the prettiest styling, and the best engine performance/sound combination. My F355 would be in that distinctive stark metallic silver. AUD$8000+ services are not what you'd call cheap, but the driving experience makes up for that 200 times over.

And the F1 would be for when I need the F1 speed fix, or want to scare the hell out of a passenger. ;) Being realistic, the F1 probably has way more speed than I'd ever need, but it is for me a dream car, and the ultimate expression of one mans dream to build what he thought represented the ultimate drivers car with no limitations on cost or technology.

Those three would be the ones I'd be happy with. And I don't think I would feel compelled to have any of them modified for any reason at all.

If I were in the market for an M5, it'd be the inline-6 E34, and not the V8 model, although it is a very tough choice, especially with the very pleasing and elegant styling of the original E39 M5. Both are very practical as well, with 5 seats, and lots of luggage space.

But an E55 AMG also has that, and gives you a lot more performance in an even more discreet looking package. You can not pick an E55 from a normal E-class, unless you see the badges, or the 4 exhaust tips at the back. From the front, it could be just an E270 CDI with an AMG bodykit, lowered suspension and big wheels.

That is something I find very desireable in a car like that, and Mercedes Benz saloons and station-wagons always tend to be very practical and easy to live with. In the wagons you can always fold the rear seats flat for a large load area, and in the old C-Class wagon even the front passenger seat could be folded forward if you need to carry a very long load. Good as a family car anyway.

I would have chosen the M5 in my list above instead of the Alfa, but you can't have 3 expensive cars, you've got to have one that is ordinary enough that you feel happy to drive it everyday and not have to worry about parking it anywhere.

12-07-2004, 03:07 AM

Well for my list, it would be:
Holden VQ Caprice (black or dark purple)
Mclaren F1 (racing green or dark purple)
DMC Deloreon (stainless)

The Caprice is a car I can and will get, of course modified, because it's a 15 year old car nearly, so it's all fresh and everything, speed upgrade, stereo upgrade a bit (still prefer to hear the noise of the v8 in front) etc etc

Mclaren F1, similar reasons to Chris

And the Deloreon, because it was the first car I really liked, when I started watching BTTF when i was like 3.

MB are good at building subtle terror's, they too would be on my list, albeit a AMG diesel when that day happens, otherwise a Laborghini Gallardo, but instead of a 5 litre petrol V10, a 5 litre diesel V10, a bit more technology and I don't mind having 1000nm of torque on my car either.

chris

12-07-2004, 04:32 AM

They are good at doing that. The SL65 AMG is a particularly nasty weapon. Quicker than the 8.3 litre Viper even, and that Viper isn't bad at all, it's a proper sports car these days.

And yet this big 2 tonne tank of a Mercedes Benz convertible with a smooth shifting 5 speed auto transmission and every luxury under the sun manages to be even quicker - insane!

Although it does have the mother of all engines, a twin-turbocharged 6.0 litre V12, and the largest brakes I've ever seen on any road or race car. Not even the Toyota GT-One race car had such massive brakes.

But it's the way the Benz engine makes the Viper seem so utterly lacking in torque that is unbelievable and outrageous. So potent is the Benz engine that its torque is governed to 1000Nm in the interests of transmission durability.

What really makes these outrageous Benz cars so amazing is that even your grandmother could feel at home driving one. They are so forgiving in the way they drive. Few cars can make such massive performance so easily accessible to the average driver. They are fast, but they are easy to drive things, and when you are done going quickly, they are quiet and comfortable, happy to just cruise along in the traffic.

And they have largely trustworthy electronic assistance features to help you if road conditions get nasty.

KyzrSoze

12-07-2004, 05:09 AM

@chris
I can agree with the E55. It does have a fantastic motor and I like the look. The only reasons for choosing the M5 instead are subtle. The BMW is a comfortable cruiser, but can also handle a road course. The steering is precise but not overly quick. Few can match the chassis balance of this car. The Mercedes is softer and less sporting, and no manual trans is available – still a very satisfying drive, but a different flavor.

Dinan has a package for the M5 that produces 470 HP with no turbo, no supercharger, and no loss of smooth drivability. Now that is true tuning.

I say all of this having driven a M5 but not a E55. I have driven a E430 sport and liked it very much.

@VQ
One of the teachers at my high school (In the early ‘80s) drove a Delorean. These cars present a strange problem, and her car was a perfect example: What do you do if you wreck it? You can’t put body filler on a stainless car. You either have to replace an entire body section or paint it. Her car was painted red as a result. :o

They are interesting cars, but the engine leaves much to be desired. I’m sure that you have plans to add power though. :D

I still need to think about what my other two cars would be. :confused:

chris

12-07-2004, 05:58 AM

Yeah, with Benz, you must have the automatic transmission. Based on the manual 6 speeders in some C-Class models, the auto is the pick too. :( At least it shifts very quickly and smoothly.

The V8 M5 is a very different flavour to the E55, it is more sensitive, and more reactive (though not as good as the agile E34 M5), where the E55 is all power, power power, and some more power, and then a heap of torque as well.

It's got a muscle car engine in it. A big simple engine, 5.5 litres, and supercharged. Can't get more old-fashioned than that, especially for a Benz.

Mind you, they have nasty fuel consumption in anything but the most careful and calm driving. Any fast driving and the fuel consumption goes through the roof. :eek:

I wouldn't say they are more soft, but perhaps, more "watched over" by the electronic nannies. And Benz traditionally builds a mild understeer characteristic into their cars as a safety measure so it seems.

But you'd not give up the ESP though, especially not in wet/very slippery road-conditions.

Reportedly AMG wanted to achieve instant, responsive acceleration with its supercharged engines, the sort of performance that didn't need a manual gearbox, where the customer could just put his/her foot down on the loud pedal and get going fast, very quickly.

The customers loved the performance, but they didn't reportedly like the heavy fuel consumption that was a penalty of the supercharged engines.

Rumours had been spreading of the return of quad-cam 32 valve V8 engines for Benz in the future, in large capacities of above 6 or 7 litres, probably as Benz attempts to get better performance, while somehow trying to achieve better fuel consumption at the same time.

However I suspect there will be a point where government authorities in Europe will step in to control the super-sedan power wars, before they get out of control.

blackice111288

12-07-2004, 06:06 AM

if i got to choose three cars to drive for the rest of my life, #1 would be a gloss black R34 GTR Spec Nur, with deep lip 18's and of course not stock.

#2 would be a Royal Blue 280zx Turbo, and that wont be stock either, with the widest lip on a set of 17's you'd ever see.

#3 would either be a 96 or 64 Impala, show cars of course. Candy coated red with 22 inch chromies with gold spinners, with the mandarory 454 for burnouts and to lug around 4 15's. you got to have a cruising car to complement the race cars.

KyzrSoze

12-07-2004, 08:46 AM

Ok, My choices

First, the M5

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/8/8292/folders/133376/932273M51.jpg

Second choice, a sports car. Otherwise I could not keep up with you guys. :D This will keep up nicely.

Mosler MT900S
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/8/8292/folders/133376/932275Mosler1.jpg

Third choice, a nice truck that can also be a work truck. 0-60MPH in 6.9 seconds in a 4 wheel drive pickup - very nice!

Nissan Titan
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/8/8292/folders/133376/932274titan1.jpg

DCsplash

12-07-2004, 11:22 AM

:) You guys are power hungry with ya M's & AMG's ;) .. Our roads are so ruff over here with potholes and stuff, your better of with a base model. Only place for those stiff set ups and ridiculous low profiles is on the track. I'll take a 320CDI over an AMG model any day.. Then theres class thing.. AMG's are ok for your successful estate agent type. But, CDI's are for your structural engineer.. ;) ^_^

12-07-2004, 06:07 PM

WHy does the Impala need such a big motor Blackice? the 350 chev in the SS's are more then capable of pulling 1.5 tonnes, commodores with stock 5 litres carry heavy sound gear, heck, there is a 3.8 supercharged monaro fitted with a complete Poineer sound system, the rear seat was removed and there are about 12 12' subs in place in a wall, it uses stock suspension and it is lower all around by about 2 inches! That's how heavy it is, and yet the stock Supercharged ECOtech V6 (same one as used in your FWD performance models.) And it goes just as well as it did. So the logic behind sticking in a huge motor to pull such heavy subwoofers doesn't make sense to me sorry. Better off just tuning the 350 or 305 fitted.

Kyzr: Yeah, it would most likely be fitted with some sort of Alloy GM based engine, preferably a LS2, but even a Holden 304 based Alloy engine, just to say that my deloreon is partly australian, I would be importing a LHD one from the states or something because once cars are 30 years old here, you can legally have them LHD, but I might just convert it to RHD if I can fabricate a dashboard and everything, of course, a spares car is nessecary.

blackice111288

12-10-2004, 07:01 PM

i guess i should have said to pull the subs and still pull 13's.
Logic behind 454 - go big or stay home.

12-10-2004, 09:50 PM

Erm, how heavy exactly would the subs be? unless they are bloody 1250lb's each or something, you don't need them, and as I said, a 350 TPi would be cheaper and if you want to go past 12's then just strap on a charger, a big block in a mid nintie's chassis is a hard thing to fit.

blackice111288

12-14-2004, 04:21 AM

i didnt mean literally only to pull the subs. i was saying get a big motor so the car would be fast even while carrying four 15's

whats up with you? usually you'd be saying "454, heck yeah, the bigger the v8 the better", i thought you'd support me on this one:)

12-14-2004, 04:30 AM

I'd support you if it was a drag car and you were saying the words 6/71 as well as full tubs and a roll cage, then I'd support and even suggest stroking the motor out and using one of the various billit or alloy motor's.

But I know that a 350 TPI can do the job just as well, and a 383 stroker sounds awsome with a 6/71 on top of it!

blackice111288

12-15-2004, 03:08 PM

well it would be cooler if it had a 454 csue i could show up somewhere and be like, "yeah, i got 4 15's, 24inch rims, and a 454 under the hood"

i could make a tight freestyle about it too-

I got got that Caprice 4 door bumpin 1 15 times 4 and sittin on 24's while pushin a 454,
with velour interior-at the show your cars inferior to mine, get out my lime light
im blowin ya mind the same way i blow you away at a stoplight

:)

12-15-2004, 09:10 PM

Well, I'd also prefer having 15X15 rims on 18 inch wide rubber and the tyres about 20 inches tall or so, but it'd be tubbed anyway so it would be really low, unlike with 24's where I doubt you'd tub it and it'd be really high.

blackice111288

12-16-2004, 05:12 PM

yeah it'd be ridin high, but it would just be a hoodish crusing car anyways, it would be no form or fashion a race car, just a show car, with some power behind it.

12-17-2004, 01:27 AM

well, mini-tub it at least so it's low! :p

blackice111288

12-17-2004, 08:53 PM

then i couldn't turn unless i had air bags and kept the front end in the air^_^

people actually do that here on their mini trucks. either the rims are to big or the keep the rear layin frame and they drive around with the front end in the air. I guess its legal cause no cops have pulled any one over for it ( but then again they dont pull over semi's for running redlights:) )

12-17-2004, 09:51 PM

I'm going to haveon my car, but when moving it has t be above 100mm clearance, so when at freeway speed I'll have it as low as possible so I don't scarpe things, to improve aerodynamics of course, and then when stopped low as and going over speed humps a bit higher.

blackice111288

12-18-2004, 02:15 PM

air bags are pretty cool, but i dont think they would be good for racing. wouldnt the bag bust if the lateral load got to be to strong? i would stick with the regular coilover setup for a race oriented car. I would only go for airbags on a strictly cruising car. at least they are cheaper and easier to maintain than the old school hydro setups.

12-19-2004, 12:57 AM

it puts on a bit of weight, but it's good otherwise imo. And for Drag racing I think it would be good too, and you can get some really heavy duty bags, and even if they do burst, the car rests on the bumpstops because that's a legal requirment and all.

here's a different take on australia's street machining, the car built by the Magazine Street Machine, which is basically the only one that covers all street muscle cars, which is any old Australia or American or different V8 or 6 and at rare times, rotarys. And new Aussie cars, like the car they did, the whole big and littles thing was what I was talking about, but with big rubber on the rear instead of big wheels, but this has lie the first ever pair of 24' rear rims on a car in Australia and uses 18' front to be able to steer, maybe you should do think of something like that? Anyway, the car is a Holden Commodore LS1 powered ute, so it looks awsome of course.

The airbag kit, 100% legal costs about $4500 for all Commodore models, even though commodores through the years are different at the rear end (live axle and IRS equiped cars where being made at the same time from 1990 to 1999) and different setups on the front suspension too, but there is a kit for each age of commodores, which is what I want for my VQ.

Click the links to see it.
http://v8shakes.racerplanet.com/vq/vuforu1.jpg
http://v8shakes.racerplanet.com/vq/vuforu2.jpg
http://v8shakes.racerplanet.com/vq/vuforu3.jpg
http://v8shakes.racerplanet.com/vq/vuforu4.jpg

blackice111288

12-21-2004, 09:54 AM

links dont work
the page says this:
Object not found!

The requested URL was not found on this server. If you entered the URL manually please check your spelling and try again.

If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster (jtallen123@yahoo.com).

Error 404

v8shakes.racerplanet.com (http://v8shakes.racerplanet.com/)
Tue Dec 21 09:53:36 2004
Apache/2.0.48 (Linux/SuSE)

12-21-2004, 05:14 PM

Erm, try this:

http://v8shakes.racerplanet.com/vq/vuforu1.JPG
http://v8shakes.racerplanet.com/vq/vuforu2.JPG
http://v8shakes.racerplanet.com/vq/vuforu3.JPG
http://v8shakes.racerplanet.com/vq/vuforu4.JPG
Stupid server settings being case sensitive.

blackice111288

12-21-2004, 08:41 PM

that looks pretty hard- is it layin frame? thats a cool concept, big wheels in the back with normal sized ones out front.
kinda reminds me of old school draggers with the 17's in back and little stock rims in front. its a show car and not a drag car-eh, cause im sure the 24's would take a few tenths off the E.T.

12-21-2004, 10:02 PM

It's a show car, couldnt' you read the writing? it's a stock body, other then the cutting to fit the wheels and the tubs, it even has the stock diff, albeit modified. And they aren't normal sized fronts, they are 18' stock on that was 17' and it is the first car in Australia to use 24' rims, and not a trend I want to see, usually for big and little's it's like two inches bigger on the rear then the front, so 16' on the front and 18' on the rear, especcially on older cars that won't fit 20' rims, which is a good thing, and people don't like cars that are "riding high" cos if they did, then they would buy a 4x4.

blackice111288

12-22-2004, 10:38 AM

can you read this writing?

http://v8shakes.racerplanet.com/vq/vuforu1.JPG
all i can see is a y.

the first car in Australia to use 24' rims, and not a trend I want to see, usually for big and little's it's like two inches bigger on the rear then the front, so 16' on the front and 18' on the rear, especcially on older cars that won't fit 20' rims, which is a good thing, and people don't like cars that are "riding high"
it must just be a USA thing because
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/321000-321999/321129_9_full.jpghttp://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/522000-522999/522423_27.jpg (javascript:ShowImage('http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?fg=000000&bg=CCCCCC&migration=1&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/522000-522999/522423_27_full.jpg', 575, 418);)
this is just crazy tho:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/498000-498999/498619_91.jpg (javascript:ShowImage('http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?fg=000000&bg=336633&migration=1&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/498000-498999/498619_91_full.jpg', 575, 413);)http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/498000-498999/498619_119.jpg (javascript:ShowImage('http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?fg=000000&bg=336633&migration=1&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/498000-498999/498619_119_full.jpg', 575, 413);)

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/498000-498999/498619_23.jpg (javascript:ShowImage('http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?fg=000000&bg=336633&migration=1&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/498000-498999/498619_23_full.jpg', 575, 413);)http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/498000-498999/498619_79.jpg (javascript:ShowImage('http://www.sounddomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?fg=000000&bg=336633&migration=1&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/498000-498999/498619_79_full.jpg', 575, 413);)

although i prefer the big rims while loered look, i respect the regal on 26's, cause thats just crazy

12-23-2004, 12:49 AM

you need to adjsut the contrast or brightness or something, cos I can read that clearly and I've only read the real article once or twice.

But I don't give any of them respect as the money spent on putting rims that large on could have gone towards real things like brakes, engine parts etc, and yet they can spend 10 grand or whatever on these rims, on cars worth a quarter of the value of the bloody wheels, which add no speed value, all it does is slwo you down, have a heavier unsprung mass etc.

blackice111288

12-23-2004, 03:08 PM

my video card's screwed up, it has been for the past few months. i guess my dad is going to buy a new one sooner or later, cause im not spending any cash on this computer. only wording i can see is the green writing and the letter Y in the first paragraph.

But I don't give any of them respect as the money spent on putting rims that large on could have gone towards real things like brakes, engine parts etc, and yet they can spend 10 grand or whatever on these rims, on cars worth a quarter of the value of the bloody wheels, which add no speed value, all it does is slwo you down, have a heavier unsprung mass etc.
some people dont care about going fast. besides, how fast are you gonna go in a 86 Caprice or Regal or any of those big steel bodied luxury non-race intended cars? not any more than a hundred. all driving isn't about racing.

Justin Martin

12-23-2004, 07:44 PM

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/498000-498999/498619_91.jpg (javascript:ShowImage('http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?fg=000000&bg=336633&migration=1&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/498000-498999/498619_91_full.jpg', 575, 413);)

Damn, that's crazy. :jawdrop:

12-23-2004, 09:24 PM

chris

12-23-2004, 09:31 PM

Damn, that's crazy. :jawdrop:

I'll say.. Hope it doesn't hit rough roads. :rolleyes:

Justin Martin

12-23-2004, 09:34 PM

Didn't all G-bodies have eithe ra V8 or a 6 to power them? Anyway, it would lok better on some smaller rims, cos somethingt hat big is not practical and I doubt gets points at shos other then for "individuality".

Usually either a 3.8l V6, or a 5.0l V8. (305 for Chevies, 307 for Oldsmobiles - not sure on Pontiacs and Buicks)

blackice111288

12-23-2004, 10:10 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackice111288
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/498000-498999/498619_91.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:ShowImage('http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?fg=000000&bg=336633&migration=1&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/498000-498999/498619_91_full.jpg', 575, 413);)

Damn, that's crazy. :jawdrop:

^_^ thats what i said, im sure the ride quality sucks, but im sure they get alot of second looks as they are going past people.

and you dont win car shows on small rims. why do you think they sell 28's? you got imports, low-riders, show trucks, and cars with big rims that usually steal the show. i'll be the first to admit that the real cars are the ones on the track, but i think off the wall show cars are cool to.