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Mickcals
11-11-2004, 04:52 PM
The Sydney Morning Herald has this: Fuming Ford officials have hit out at Holden and V8 Supercar racing's judicial system, accusing them of double standards over an alleged technical breach by the Holden Racing Team (HRT).

The Mark Skaife-owned HRT will front stewards on Friday prior to the weekend's round in Tasmania over a similar breach to that which resulted in intense public scrutiny of Ford and Marcos Ambrose after the Queensland 300 in July.

Todd Kelly's car is alleged to have had an irregularity with its electronic control unit when it was third overall at the Gold Coast championship round last month.

But the matter was only made public on Wednesday when it emerged HRT would have to appear before stewards.

In Ambrose's case, his Stone Brothers Racing team was immediately hauled before stewards once the post-race problem was found, docked all its championship points from winning the round and fined.

The points were reinstated on appeal four days later and its fine reduced to $5,000.

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AdvertisementFord bosses are angry Holden has dodged the public bullets over the technical breach, as well as getting an extra three weeks before pleading its case to stewards.

"We need to understand why the system hasn't dealt with these two issues equally," Ford motorsport manager Stephen Kruk said.

"Not only has Holden got nearly three weeks to work on their defence, they've got away without any public scrutiny and without any damage to the brand in the way that Ford and Stone Brothers Racing were attacked.

"We had people from Holden like Mark Skaife and Larry Perkins (Castrol Perkins Racing team owner) accusing us of cheating.

"And what we're equally concerned about is who was able to create an environment of silence for 18 days in this case?"

The Confederation of Australian Motor Sports (CAMS), which handles stewards' inquiries, said there was nothing sinister in the delay in announcing HRT's alleged breach.

A spokesman said the suspect part was still being examined by technical officials at least four days after the Gold Coast round, though he could not say when the charge was actually laid.

Holden officials have declined to comment on the matter until after the inquiry.

"We'll go to the hearing tomorrow. If there's a penalty there, we'll react," Holden spokesman Tim Pemberton said.

Kruk said Ford was keen to see the new directive issued by V8 Supercar racing's governing body AVESCO after the Ambrose case applied to HRT tomorrow.

AVESCO said in August any technical breaches, regardless of the circumstances, would result in the car concerned being excluded from the sessions in which the breach was known to have taken place.

That would mean Kelly would be disqualified from at least the second race of that round.

"When the Stone Brothers case came out, Mark Skaife demanded our car be excluded from the round," Kruk said.

"We hope they will have no issue with the penalty they asked for to be dished out."

Ambrose goes into the weekend's round in his home state needing just 27 points more than nearest rival Jason Bright to seal back-to-back championships.

But in a busy day for stewards, Ambrose will also face an inquiry tomorrow over a pit lane altercation with Holden rival Rick Kelly at the Gold Coast.

Kelly will also have to explain his Gold Coast crash with Bright, which left Bright's Commodore destroyed.

The V8s will have practice tomorrow, before qualifying and a race on Saturday and two races on Sunday

Well, this hardly seems fair now does it.

AS soon as Ambrose was found in breach of the rules all hell breaks loose and yet now that HRT have done it, its sweeped under a blanket and hidden by the media coverage of the Ambrose/Rick Kelly incident at Indy.

the rules state that if an illegal breach of rules are found then that car will be excluded from the session it was found in - so in Todd's case he would loose all points gained in the 2nd race.

murph_fan
11-11-2004, 08:39 PM
Yes and Ambroses points should be taken off aswell then. You cant fine one driver and not another one from the opposite camp.
HRT should also get the $5000 fine, and look to see if it was intentional or was at an andvanatage.

When the Stone Brothers case came out, Mark Skaife demanded our car be excluded from the round,"

Possibly because this was a championship leading car, it sounds more suspect. I mean if a driver last in the championship got caught cheating, no one would really care, but Ambrose was leading the series and could have been because of that breach.

Also, for that 18 days they could have been discussing things. Remember in Bathurst 87, The 2 Ford Seriers got caught using smaller/lighter front spoilers and were stripped of their win weeks/months later.

VQ
11-11-2004, 09:39 PM
Yeah, that was controversial, Ford shoulda been using V8 powered XF's Imo, but anyway, it is bs that hrt haven't had action immedietly, but Ford have been dealt the favourable card before in the past, remeber all the stuff that went on last year and the year before, not forgetting project blueprint?

lewi
11-11-2004, 10:31 PM
Not really, remind me please? I think the issue here is the comparison of the speed and hype at which the HRT case is being treated. IMO, I support that, the outcome isn't the problem though

Bo0
11-11-2004, 11:00 PM
No its not really fair is it, but it all depends on the situation too, the Kelly case and Ambrose case may be two different things, or, they have only discovered the "advantage" in Kelly's car, im not too sure.

I knew there was something suss with his car, i just knew it! He's been struggling along then wham! gets a good result... see the pattern... :D

Well you could call this another protrayal of Ford as the "enemy", the vast majority being Holden fans, and its clearly shown in the treatment of the two cases. I wonder ehat happened to that promised consistency AVESCO promised =[

VSV6
11-12-2004, 01:10 AM
Good to see that a Ford Fan is on side with us about this decision and how stupid it really is.
Admitedly he should damn well be punished, and the taking of points is just for such a crime as an ECU wiring loom can give a fair amount of advantage.
However Ambrose cops a slap on the rist and Todd ends up suffering a loss of championship points!!
Trust Ford to go off about it, seriously do they want us to see them as the enemy or not?
I still blame Ford for the mess that is PBP
Jeezus christ! make better cars don't slow us down!!

Cheers
-Mike

Y2kGoofball
11-12-2004, 01:26 AM
in all honestly, even being such a strong HRT supporter that I am, I honestly believe they did it on Kellys car on purpose, and why not :eek: Sure, they'll deny it, I'd stand up and agree, but deep down I think thats the truth.

The current judicial system is such cr@p that all you need is money. Skaifes pointed this our publically before, and cmon we all know HRT has the money. I think the only team that a money penalty hurts is BJR, Kim's always whinging about it

Look at it this way, what has HRT got to lose out of this year even if they were excluded from the rest of the 2 rounds left? Absolutely nothing, if anything they could use it to their advantage as their so far down the list because of being banned )=)

I havent heard anything yet but I wouldnt be surprised if they rocked up today with a wallet of cash and said here you go, what lose points? fine be that way ^_^ I know I would

As for Kelly apparently he lost 50 points and fined $5 grand or something crap like that. Once again Holden man and I think Ricks got a good racing career ahead of him, but thats piss weak considering the damage he caused

So I say take the Holden attitude, who gives a :nono: the fact is they were fast on the day, this years at a loss anyway, and I'd be concerned if this happened next year, especially if HRT were in a more better championship position

VQ
11-12-2004, 01:53 AM
They just need to learn now for next year, with the VZ really.

skaife_fan
11-12-2004, 02:28 AM
The whole sytem is inconsistent. Some people get black flagged when other people do the same thing etc. On the whole Project Blueprint issue you cant really say that the same thing didn't happen to Ford because it did. In 1993 Ford were winning almost every round so Holden got new aero kits. Than in 1995 when Ford were winning they took some margain off the front spliter to reduce downforce mind you this was right before Bathurst. But that is a whole different topic. Anyway back on track really what happens to one should happen to everyone.

VQ
11-12-2004, 03:16 AM
yeah, Holden win 3 years in a row, they give the holdens new front suspension that uses compleltly different settings to the old setup and limits the cars incredibly, and the fact the Ford motor's make more hp then the Chev V8's.

Perko_Rulz
11-13-2004, 01:47 AM
Seriously, AVESCO is the big kid at school that changes the rules halfway through the game. If they change a rule, implament it next year as it is a level playing field and all people have the same punishment.

It makes me wonder why AVESCO and TEGA crack the shits when they are called stupid. Maybe they should look around.

Turboginge
11-13-2004, 04:36 AM
Motor Racing eh.

Look at what is happining in F1, Change the rules so that Micheal doesnt win so much...
Now its happening in V8 ffs I want to see drivers going hell for leather as fast as they can without any regulations preventing them from doing this. If they are dumb enough to miss a brake point and run off into the wall, thats their problem.

Stop taking the excitement away from the drivers and giving it to the spectators.... that is what this is all about, making it look good so that people will watch.

If they keep this shit up the people they are penalising will eventually lose interest and piss off somewhere else.

For those people who reckon motorspor is boring.... go watch golf or tennis or something, stop whinging and let the purists enjoy racing for what it is supposed to be.

Brad H
11-17-2004, 06:04 PM
couldn't have said the above comment better