Well the infamous 206 is at 43000 km's wearing the tires unevenly and a lot in the front so it's time for us to start saving up for new tires. We're currently driving on the factory mounted Goodyear GT2 175/65-14 tires on stock 5.5J steelplate rims but I want something else but we're poor.
Danish conditions is all tarmac, dry and hot and cold and wet with the occasional blizzard in the spring but mainly wet roads so tires with wet-capability is a must. The current tire size is fine to avoid problems with speedometer readings and further problems with the suspension alignment (before the new tires will come on some time the suspension will be specifically checked and fixed).
The old 89 Orion I drove before also had GT2 tires on, just in 175/70-13 size, later replaced by Goodyear Vector all-season tires in the same size but neither were that good in the wet according to my oppinion (specifically braking which can be the difference of life or death here in town-traffic, sadly).
I'm looking at Michelin, Bridgestone and Continental atm. Sava, Viborg and other cheap tires have no interest since this car doesn't convey much information or confidence in the first place so I don't want to loose anything.
Frank
KyzrSoze
11-08-2004, 12:13 PM
Car and Driver magazine seems to always talk about the Bridgestone Blizzak as a good winter tire. The Bridgestone Potenza is good too if you want more of an all season tire.
FIATLOVE
11-12-2004, 09:11 PM
Hi Frank :wave:
I have to buy new summertyres myself right now because the pattern is only 3-4 mm at front tyres.
I have no specific tyre to recommend you, but here is my tips;
Try look at what owners of 206 GTI models are using, 1st look at what tyre the 206 GTI has as stock, then try find out what tyre they (danish d206 GTI owners) prefer as 1st choice.
For my own car I have yet only worn out 2 sets of summertyres (because I use winther tyres at least 6 months every year).
The stock tyres for my Fiat Bravo HGT was Pirelli P 6000;
http://no-clan.nett.org/pics/head/hgt_bella_685.jpg
Now these tyres are "old" style (2 generations old or so), but when I got the tyres I have now, I did look at how the treading was at the stock tyres.
The reason why I do this is that Fiat use to deliver GT models with very good stock tyres, I guess Peugeot also do that.
My tyres today look like this
http://no-clan.nett.org/pics/head/hgt_solbergfoss_front_900.jpg
if you look at drain pattern it looks very similar to the P 6000.
The P6000 was awesome when hitting water in track-rills, you could hear a "poof" when the middle pattern sucked up the water and the car just kept on flying at same speed without losing grip.
With the "new" tyres from Michelin (2 years old and worn out in front) the car now lose a tad speed when hitting water, but the feeling is not so hardcore and firm as with P6000, with the Michelin it feels very smooth but not the same firm groundfeeling.
So my next choice will be a tyre with wider center-pattern :p
Frank, I guess you may use the same soft compound as I do for my summertyres, the only reason why I use winther tyres is that we often have snowy icy roads at winther, in Oslo town and mainroads there is mostly dry tarmac except when snowfalls. If we did not have snow and ice I would used the soft compound summer tyres all year (hi speed rain tyres, I cant remember the tyre-code but they are allowed minimum 225 kmh average, is it HR???)
These tyres allows the car to reach topspeed, they are not wearing heavily (compared to what they give you in sporty feeling), they are dang secure at wet tarmac they are not too noisy and they are pretty economic at fuel (if you want, hehe).
I will buy new summertyres myself very soon, if I find some good advice I tell you, but my tip is;
try find some tests, then ask some Peugeot mechanics (not dealers) what tyre the 206GTI is best with, and ask if the same tyre is to prefer for your car. (and look if there is a 206 forum)
Do never listen to the guys who want to sell you tyres, if you ask for something good, they will probably offer you some "18 yearsold-streetracingstuff" that wears out your bearrings before you can say "the Peugeout 206 needs service now".
The best tyres are not mentioned by sellers when you go shopping, you have to ask for them, because as you say, they cost 50-100 DKR more each than other cool tyres.
On the other hand those extra money will pay back in lifetime, as long as you avoid the softest compounds.
As fas I can recall, the last 5 years or so only the grand tyremakers have delivered really great rain-summer tyres for our conditions.
Bridgestone, Michelin, Pirelli, Continental and Good Year, but I did not read any tests this year because I haven't had any need for new tyres this summer.
But next spring I need it, and wow I look forward to it, fresh rubber ahh that's nice :)
And, my dear Fiat Bravo HGT passed 100.000 km 2 days ago, bella!
:Peace:
Mads
FIATLOVE
11-12-2004, 09:43 PM
If wearing uneven right/left side or uneven iner outer side at a tyre you really have to check the allignement.
As for worn front tyres, why not just swap front and rear tyres? At least if front tyres starts to wear out, now it's fall season and alot of rain, the most important is to have pattern at front tyres, the rear tyres just follow the front anyway.
That is as long you don't push the rear end at wet tarmac, but I guess you know at what point the 206 will lose rear end grip, and how it will slide.
My Fiat has independant rear suspension wich makes it let the outer leg slip, but in a very smooth way, it's not even needed to give gas to save it, it just takes it in by itself. But of course it's much more effective and fun to take it back by floor the gas tho that often feels abit boring because the car is so balanced when in drift. (gasing takes the car back into line very quick, let it be makes me do the drift smooth and fully, yeaaaaaa)
I am so happy that my car doesn't have any electronical stability systems :-)
Do you have independant rear suspension on that 206?
And hey, do not forget to use a dishwash brush and some dishwash soap scrubbing the patterns of your tyres, it makes wonders!
My tip is do it once a month when rainy.
Mads
VQ
11-12-2004, 09:54 PM
We got new tyres and rims yesterday for the Golf, secondhand rims but, because the old stock steelies are damaged, and dad wanted some rims, so we now have them and all but one rim is buckled and they need to be fixed up, but they can be and they aren't affecting the driving at the moment, will be fixed once we can afford it, it looks ok, but not quite, because they are 1' taller and all, but the old 14's tyres and rims were short apparantly which put the speedo off, but we have some retreads on the back that came with it and a set of Falkens on the front, with a V rating, don't know why we need that when the speed limit we hit at most is 110..... Will get some pics soon I guess.
FIATLOVE
11-12-2004, 10:41 PM
I have worn out 2 sets of summer tyres, my car has 100.000 on odo, I bet that my drivingstyle wears tyres more than yours, in town and in traffic I drive very very smooth and carefully but as soon the roads "opens" up I always clamp it, and our roads are much rougher on the tyres than the danish roads, so let's say that my summertyres (front) lives for 28.000 - 32.000 km with my drivestyle, I guess that will be equal to the 43.000 you did with the stock tyres regarding wearing.
My rear tyres still has 6mm left of pattern but I'm picky so I will use one of them as spare tyre, then buy fresh rubber.
FeZ
11-13-2004, 12:42 AM
I am not sure about weather and road conditions in Denmark so I really cannot give advice.
Only thing I know is when you live somewhere with cold winters and hot summers then all-season tyres are not the best choice. All season tyres are always a compromise, if the difference between summer and winter temperatures is not that high they may work better.
If you looking for tyres with good comfort and low wear I can only recommend Michelin (Energy & Alpin). Michelin is always a good choice for any French car unless you want to go racing ;)
Frank N. O.
11-13-2004, 04:48 AM
Thank you all for you friendly and supportive replies :)
There are two problems with using seasonal tires:
1. The weather in Denmark changes a lot, in the spring we can easily have a month of temperatures over +7 C and then suddently a full switch with days of snow-storms so strong that even the veteran danish 24-hour winter road-service can't keep even the main roads clear, so in DK you cannot just change wheels twice a year sadly, more like 5-6 and I cannot do this myself with the jack on the car.
2. We cannot afford a second set of rims, regardless of the type, steel or alloy (and we still only have the original plate steel-rims).
Frank: You're right about the salesmen at tire-shops I'm sure, but mechanics at Peugeot aren't much good either since they always seem to duck out the last coupe of services we've been too, and the dealer has a contract with Michelin, and they do not have all-season tires according to the brochure at the dealer.
The 206's suspension groans over large bumps even when rolling over at crawl-speed but I think it's the way the links are hinged since it's only when it's been parked overnight and over the first bumps here, maybe ruined bushings. In any case then the steering with the strange steering-feel is very hard to read, so the more precise the tire the better, the 206 already soaks up hard bumps several times better than the old Orion.
When it's cold then the steering feels like I'm turning an electric step-motor, it hops a tiny bit when I make small adjustments and it's very very unpleasent plus it makes it even harder than normal to feel the grip of the tires why is why I have not driven as much when it's cold since we got the 206 as I did in the Orion.
I've never driven so it has lost grip so I don't know how it slides, but I doubt the engine can do anything like saving oversteer since that 1360cc engine is so bad on torque and the running-culture the last year has been very bad and vibrating but a change of black spark plugs at the 3-year service a few months ago didn't help.
Here's the rear-suspension: Near horizontal damper. Torsion-spring(s?) and arb of some sort. The rear-end lifts up and the car rolls when engaging the parking-brake on an incline, it scared the carp out of the first time it did that since the Orion had long transverse links at the back so it never did anything like that.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nigel.wildgust/images/rear%20suspension.jpg
Front suspension: McPherson with strange 3-point boomerang lower link. 1 attachment point at the hub, two on the chassis/sub-frame. Twist in bushings instead of turning on an axle/shaft.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nigel.wildgust/images/Front%20suspension.jpg
And the link itself better seen here:
http://www.cartv.org/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/tn_2200.jpg
You know Mads, I actually considered a Bravo 1.2 at the time but we didn't think we could get a loan for that much so the only cars were Punto and Seicento and I couldn't even fit in those.
Frank
P.S. Hey Fez, nice to see you again, we've been missing you in the chat. It's really getting quiet in there, a shame no more people visit it :(
Frank N. O.
11-14-2004, 10:08 AM
Hmm, appearently I heard wrong, it's outer side of both tires that were worn, and not just the righ-hand tire completely. He says I must be cornering too hard but since neither me or my mom have ever needed clinging on to something while cornering and we don't have sports-seats or sports-tires then I doubt this, against since I drive the 206 at a similar style and rate as the 89 Orion and it too had the same brand tire on just in 175/70-13 instead of 175/65-14.
Frank
wello
11-16-2004, 04:03 AM
Hmm, appearently I heard wrong, it's outer side of both tires that were worn, and not just the righ-hand tire completely. He says I must be cornering too hard but since neither me or my mom have ever needed clinging on to something while cornering and we don't have sports-seats or sports-tires then I doubt this, against since I drive the 206 at a similar style and rate as the 89 Orion and it too had the same brand tire on just in 175/70-13 instead of 175/65-14.
Frank
I think its time you find a new service person for your car Frank its sounds like he is telling you a load of crap .
Go to a well know tire centre and get your front end allignement checked I think you'll find that has alot to do with your tire wear
I travell 40,000 kms a year for work in all sorts of weather from -7c to 45c and get at least 18 mths to 2 yrs a set of tires (205/60/14I get a wheel allignement 2 times a year for my own piece of mind
Frank N. O.
11-16-2004, 05:53 AM
Ok I checked myself with a thread depthgauge and a tire-pressure gauge too just in case and oh boy :(
The thread is from either side of the main tire, I could reach the inner thread of the rear-tires since I couldn't turn those.
Btw, the legal thread-limit in DK is 1.6 mm and the outer right thread was just under that mark on my gauge so it's 1.5 max. The tire-pressure is supposed to be 2.3 bar f/r according to Peugeot, and another tire-manufacturer listed 2.4 instead for my car with that tire-size.
Frank
Cheyenne
11-16-2004, 04:39 PM
It sounds like you may have some slight alignment problems.
If I'm understanding it right, it sounds like you need slightly more tire pressure and either the camber moved slightly in the negative direction (top of the front wheels moved "inwards") and/or slightly less toe-in.
More tire pressure presents a more "round" contact patch, promoting wear in the center of the patch, and less towards the edges.
The camber changes the angle/force of the contact patch towards the edges (or towards neutral) positive puts more pressure on the "outside" of the contact patch, more negative puts pressure towards the inside of the patch. The pressure translates to friction/wear.
Toe-in is basically for "stability" reasons but it affects friction as well as how friction breaks away. More toe-in (front of the steering wheels pointed together) causes a vehicle to be more stable traveling down the road and tends to cause more friction to the outside of the contact patch. Less, of course, is the inverse. Toe-in "effects" are also affected by camber settings.
Just some recommends.
Frank N. O.
11-17-2004, 01:02 AM
Thanks for the post Chey, I appreciate it. It's now pretty unanimous (spelling?) that there is a problem with the wheel alignment on the car, the problem is that it just had it's 3 year service 3 months ago at the dealer where we bought it, a dealership that's been voted #1 garage in DK and are the two-time Danish Touringcar Champions (driven by the son of the couple that owns it).
Speaking of service, I also looked at the sheet from it, and it lists checking the inflation and condition of the tires, all 5 (spare included). This is looking like it's headed towards another Ford Orion scandal (that Ford dealer overlooked massive faults including a full hole in the chassis that got the car cancelled several times over at the goverment safety check which is what forced my mom to get a massive 10 year loan and find a new car in less than 1 month unless we wanted to walk).
It's 9:59 here now (nice number :D) and it's now 4.4 C, a little later we'll try checking out the tire-dealer here in town to find out what is available and for what prices. With the help of several here and in the chat-room, especially XR-Fez the list has been narrowed down to:
Bridgestone Blizzak LM-18
Michelini Alpin (specifc type unknown, Michelin didn't say, but Pilot Alpin is not made in our small size)
Pirelli Winter 190 Snowcontrol
Maybe I'll look for Continental tires too, a swedish test gave top-marks to the PremiumContact summer-tire and I know from testdrives of Porsches with ContiSportContact tires that they are supreme in some fields.
EDIT: Found one: ContiWinterContact TS 780 can fit the 206 as well.
Btw the size for this small model is 175/65-14 82T on 5.5J rims (original steelplate).
Frank
VQ
11-17-2004, 03:11 AM
Just because your car's been serviced doen't mean they did the alignment, because unless they are a tyre dealer and have the alignment gear too, it won't be adjusted, and you should also specify what should be done, because otherwise they will just say you need this this and this done, like with our golf, the front struts are leaking and need replacment, etc etc.
Frank N. O.
11-17-2004, 04:20 AM
VQ, the dealer also has their own garage and mechanics for both private and business-vehicles, as well as their DTC (top danish racingclass) mechanics.
Alignment is checking the suspension and that is the authorized dealer's job, not a independant tire-shop allthough some can do it.
Speaking of that, we went to my regular tire supplier today and he recognized me even though I haven't been there since the Orion and that's over 3 years ago. Bridgestone Blizzak tires are nordic snow-tires and not suitable for tarmac-driving so they are off the list. I also saw a copied test from a magazine that my old Orion all-season tires, GoodYear Vector had bad scores and that's the only quality brand all-season tire here in the 206's size.
Michelin Alpin A2 is a new model made for what we call Green Winter and it was a top-scorer on the test so that is probably what we will go with.
I do have to check with Peugeot Denmark about possible suspension alignment problems since I finally got my hand under the wheelarch to check the rear-tire's inner thread and it was also higher than the outer. I wonder if all 4 wheels drive with bad camber alignment.
Frank
KyzrSoze
11-17-2004, 09:24 AM
When the alignment is checked (any good shop will do this anyway), have the mechanic check the suspension components. I dont know how your front suspension is designed, but bad rubber components (tie rod ends, bushings, etc.) can cause the problems you describe, even if the alignment is within factory specs. At rest or on the lift the alignment may look good, but a bad component will the alignment to "wander" while under load, causing weird wear patterns on the tires.
Also, I know that many shops in my area charge a slightly higher price (maybe $75 instead of the standard $50) for a "lifetime" alignment. It allows you to have the car aligned as often as you like for as long as you own the car. See if you can find a deal like that for yourself.
:)
Frank N. O.
11-17-2004, 10:22 AM
Here's the rear-suspension: Near horizontal damper. Torsion-spring(s?) and arb of some sort. The rear-end lifts up and the car rolls when engaging the parking-brake on an incline, it scared the carp out of the first time it did that since the Orion had long transverse links at the back so it never did anything like that.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nigel.wildgust/images/rear%20suspension.jpg
Front suspension: McPherson with strange 3-point boomerang lower link. 1 attachment point at the hub, two on the chassis/sub-frame. Twist in bushings instead of turning on an axle/shaft.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nigel.wildgust/images/Front%20suspension.jpg
And the link itself better seen here:
http://www.cartv.org/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/tn_2200.jpg
Here you go, note the hidden back part of the front lower link, you can see it better in the last picture link. The part for the hub is the one on the right, and the visible link is the one in the middle. I don't like that idea that it's twisting only in a bushing sitting on a vertical bolt and not turning on a parallel bolt like for instance my old Ford did. To me this Peugeot-setup is very weak as you also suggest.
Frank
Frank N. O.
11-17-2004, 11:01 AM
Well after talking to my uncle (my dad's older brother) my mom has decided that we will not get new tires, but just two new Goodyear GT2's to replace the front tires where the rear-tires still have a lot of thread. My uncle also told my mom that it could only be alignment that caused the uneven wear and not suspension problems.
I even offered to hold up new clothes and proper contrast driving glasses (which my over light-sensitive eyes need and my old cheap amber glasses are scratched and broken, litterally).