I'm in love with this Benz - especially the fantastic engine sound. :love: I can't help but keep rewinding the video back to where he demonstrates the gearbox - and floors the throttle. :)
blackice111288
10-08-2004, 12:35 PM
a really nice Benz is the CLK AMG DTM. it will only be sold in Germany :'( . it is powered by a supercharged 5.5 liter V8 putting out 582 horses!! It's desinged with the German Touring Race Car series in mind, as u can see by the air dam, the huge fender flares, and the deep lipped 19 and 20 inch wheels in 225/35R/19 and 285/30R/20 Dunlop tires, the spoiler and the oval exhaust tips. the backseat is gone and the front 2 are replaced with lightwieght AMG racing seats.
back to the engine, the transmission is an AMG Speedshift 5 speed auto (or Manumatic, so to speak) with paddle shifters. it sports a height adjustable shocks. the differential uses a multiple disc limited slip system.
i read abpout it in Sport Compact car's September '04 issue, the same one that features a nasty 6 speed single turbo supra running 9.68 at 149.98mph and full street legal. it's running 991 hp and 805 lb/ft to the rear wheels with 39 psi of boost. sorry, off topic, but cool i think
Frank N. O.
10-08-2004, 12:46 PM
I think it is a nice car and as I was just talking with Venom about on the RP Chat then a true enthusiast doesn't judge a car by which one is best, but which one that person likes and then there is no problem to meet owners and fans of the other cars and friendly talking about the details and impressions of their cars. This is a stark contrast to what is read on far too many car-forums where they just see the price of say a Honda S2000 and say it's a junker because the dash-plastic is bad and for that money their Dodge Neon can smoke it on a 1/4-mile :rolleyes:
Tiff did make a little fun of some of the impractical sides of the car, but never did I get the impresion that he ridiculed the car, but more he showed it as an enthusiast to an enthusiast and he did show the cars nice sides as well.
Jeremy Dorkson's test of the CL65 AMG on the other hand was not at all like a gentleman car-enthusiast and skilled responsible driver like Tiff, and of course Lady Vicki, both of which unlike Dorkson are professional racing-drivers.
Thank you for the videoclip Chris and I for one would love to see more.
Greetings :wave:
Frank
chris
10-08-2004, 09:05 PM
a really nice Benz is the CLK AMG DTM. it will only be sold in Germany :'( . it is powered by a supercharged 5.5 liter V8 putting out 582 horses!! It's desinged with the German Touring Race Car series in mind, as u can see by the air dam, the huge fender flares, and the deep lipped 19 and 20 inch wheels in 225/35R/19 and 285/30R/20 Dunlop tires, the spoiler and the oval exhaust tips. the backseat is gone and the front 2 are replaced with lightwieght AMG racing seats.
back to the engine, the transmission is an AMG Speedshift 5 speed auto (or Manumatic, so to speak) with paddle shifters. it sports a height adjustable shocks. the differential uses a multiple disc limited slip system.
i read abpout it in Sport Compact car's September '04 issue, the same one that features a nasty 6 speed single turbo supra running 9.68 at 149.98mph and full street legal. it's running 991 hp and 805 lb/ft to the rear wheels with 39 psi of boost. sorry, off topic, but cool i think
That particular CLK is little more than a heavy pretender - unlike the CLK-GTR. The GTR is a proper race-car. Put slick tyres on it, and you can go racing right away and probably even out-run the new Maserati MC12 Competizione.
blackice111288
10-08-2004, 09:30 PM
you (I) cant truthfully say you absolutely wouldn't drive it, tho! its the perfect street car to me, i bet it pulls mid 12's. might not be a supercar like the CLK-GTR, but still a performance car. 582 ponies? come on now, tell me you wouldnt drive that! i have to have a black one tho, with silver accents.
chris
10-08-2004, 09:34 PM
Nah, I wouldn't want the CLK DTM AMG. It's just not my cup of tea. It's trying to look like a race car, yet it weighs a huge amount, and it isn't really what it is trying to look like.
The GTR would be nicer for me, since it is the real deal and you know me, I like huge V12 engines. :) Big V12 engines make such a nice noise.
VQ
10-08-2004, 09:50 PM
It's much like owning a Commodore or falcon, which you wouldn't own even if the power/tonne would be similar, it's basically a bodykit it incease some sales and instead of tubbing it, they put a wide bodykit on it.
chris
10-08-2004, 10:06 PM
And then you see that CLK-GTR, when Tiff has the crew take the front and back bodywork off it, you see it is absolutely not a normal CLK, and a pure race-car.
It exists in a small world of such extreme machines including such other treasures as the Porsche 911 GT1 1996, 1997 and 1998 versions, Nissan R390 GT1, and the outrageous, eye-popping French designed Toyota GT-One.
VQ
10-08-2004, 10:29 PM
Yeah, the CLK-GTR is a beast, but people like Mark Webber wouldn't be recomending it to anyone.....
chris
10-09-2004, 12:26 AM
Tiff did make a little fun of some of the impractical sides of the car, but never did I get the impresion that he ridiculed the car, but more he showed it as an enthusiast to an enthusiast and he did show the cars nice sides as well.
Jeremy Dorkson's test of the CL65 AMG on the other hand was not at all like a gentleman car-enthusiast and skilled responsible driver like Tiff, and of course Lady Vicki, both of which unlike Dorkson are professional racing-drivers.
Thank you for the videoclip Chris and I for one would love to see more.
Greetings :wave:
Frank
I got the impression that Tiff loved the car, and probably wished he'd been driving the competition version. :) You can certainly tell when Tiff likes a car.
I agree on Clarkson as well, sometimes he is funny, but other times he is just so biased and stupid. Tiff Needell is probably one of the better motoring journalists still about these days. And Vicki isn't too bad either (and very easy on the eyes as well).
blackice111288
10-12-2004, 03:14 PM
It's much like owning a Commodore or falcon, which you wouldn't own even if the power/tonne would be similar, it's basically a bodykit it incease some sales and instead of tubbing it, they put a wide bodykit on it.
but its got 582 horse power!!!!!!! i dont care, i like it. im not saying its better than the GTR, but i would still drive it.
chris
10-12-2004, 04:18 PM
It's like a muscle car in my books. It's over 1750kg IIRC, and that's far too heavy for a proper performance car. On a race-track, or in racing conditions, a 380bhp 911 GT3 would probably easily account for the power-crazed Benz just because of having to move around less kilograms.
To put the weight of the imposter CLK-DTM road-version into perspective, a Jaguar XJ6 - a full size luxury saloon with 4 doors and every convenience and comfort you could image - weighs just 1545kg. And yet the smaller CLK weighs even more, and by a large margin. The weight difference can't be blamed on the Benz having a big supercharged V8 engine, since Mercedes Benz SOHC 24 valve V8 engines are light engines. They are simple, uncomplicated engines and are quite light for their sizes.
I don't think Benz is truly serious about performance these days. Sure, big power and torque yes, but performance as a whole, I just don't think they do that. If I were to change something about the "road-version" CLK-DTM, it would be to bring its weight down to around 1300-1350kg.
Then you'd have a real weapon.
VQ
10-12-2004, 11:42 PM
Remeber, there are more and more legal responisbilities that these companies ahve to face, which is why they don't do everything the sport fanatics want, I'm sure you could strip it out by special order but. And Muscle cars were heavy cos of the engine.
blackice111288
10-14-2004, 02:38 PM
and their enormous steel bodies and frames.
1750kg? thats like 3850lbs! a little chubby, eh? what is weighing it down, it supposedly has a race inspired interior? or is that the problem, thats its race inspired but race actions werent taken........
VQ
10-15-2004, 09:54 PM
Actually, the bodies themselves are reletivly light, it really is the 500kg+ motor's that weighed it down, it's beside the point that people still do that, and the fact they are damn fast and tough doesn't mean anything does it?
blackice111288
10-22-2004, 03:44 PM
500kg is alot, but when your making 600+hp, it doesnt see like a big deal (untill you try to stop, or turn and the behemoth keeps going strait)
gimme a light wight dart or nova with a big block (or a dart swinger with a built inline 6 and all the left hand bolts converted to standard right hand bolts), but thats it, most the other cars are too big and heavy
VQ
10-23-2004, 03:43 AM
They all started like a Nova's, for you or a Torana, like ours, which the biggest factory motor was a 308 Holden weighing no more then 300kg's I think. But that's what the original GTO was, but who cares if it can't handle? that's just the engineeering teams that didn't direct their energy into the brakes and handling, using the stuff from lesser powered and lesser stressed vehichles, but look at the Corvette, they had big blocks etc, and they can handle, look at the 69' Camaro's with alloy 427's that won races all over the place, including Australia's ATCC Championship with bob jane driving, I've seen it before it's really an impressive car.
blackice111288
10-25-2004, 03:07 PM
their handling was decent compared to other muscle cars. yenko camaros could only pull .72 g's on the skid pad. i only list that car cause thats the only car i know the exact handling for. im guessing the regular camaros had worse handling because the yenkos had a different suspension. seeing the yenko had the 427, the vette 427 couldn't have been that great of a performer in corners cause it's not exactly light weight car, not in street form anyways. hold on, didn't we have this discussion before? :)
VQ
10-25-2004, 11:52 PM
What about the alloy engined 427's that won in race's all over the place?
We don't have skid pad measurments in Australia, it means nothing to me, I should look it up, but I can't be bothered.
And factory suspension on a 30 nyear old car is bad, cos the springs and shocks will be worn, so you would be upgrading them anyway.
HQ Racers, which is a one make class based on the HQ Kingswood using a 202 stright six motor, handle really well, with new components etc underneath them, you think people put v8's in cars and not upgrade the suspension? they would either make it to be albe to corner or to launch well.
blackice111288
10-28-2004, 03:21 PM
i wasn't talking about strictly race cars, i'm talking about street cars. i really dont compare full fledged race cars toooften because there are alot of performance modifications done on those cars that cant be done on regular street cars (for saftey, blah emissions, and law the DOT has set up)
even with stiffened susupension, a heavy car will still understeer, you can improve on it by softning up the rear suspension a bit and moving th motor abck a inch or so with custom mounts. its all physics, my dear friend. ^_^
VQ
10-29-2004, 07:58 PM
They will understeer if the engine is too far forward yes, but in most muscle cars, the engines aren't that far forwards, and I would think that they oversteer more then understeer, cos of all the torque :p
Also, you can't compare a pre-emissions car to a post emissions car really, because all the rules did change.
blackice111288
10-30-2004, 08:56 PM
Also, you can't compare a pre-emissions car to a post emissions car
sure you can, its done all the time: "Muscle is so much faster than rice blah blah blah" and " all Japanese sports cars can smoke crappy American rustbuckets blah blah blah" and so on and so forth... ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^
back to the under/oversteer subject- sure if a car has gobs of torque, you can muscle it around wide corners, but when it comes to really tight and small low speed turns, those front tires are gonna slip and squeal ferociosly due to all the wieght the engine puts over the front wheels. the Suburban does it all the time. yeah, i know its a big honkin truck, it handles pretty close to if not better than most of the muscle cars i've been in (the 3 i've actually been in :blush: ). i know it would blow the doors of my uncle's '71 Delta 88 ^_^