Dynamik SHOULD be BANNED!

[Y2kGoofball]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: I'll write more shortly ... just come here during an ad break but basically Dynamik were fined $104 000 for their illegal testing

After their performance at Sandown knocking out Skaife and Seton and sending Bright into a high speed spin down the back straight I am now strongly for banning them from the championship!

Like I said, I'll write more shortly ... just tryping during the ad break :mad:

[chris]

What should happen is that if your team causes an accident, beyond doubt, then your team should pay for the damages caused to the car from the other team.

Sort of like if you have a crash at the Nordschliefe these days, and you damage the barriers at the side of the track. You have to pay for the damage you caused to them.

[Y2kGoofball]

I assume you know what I'm on about then

For those not familiar, just over half way through (or maybe even about 70 % through) Sandown the first of the dynamik cars, with major damage, come across the back straight and into Brights car, bright battling for position after having an off in the previous few laps.

Naturally flat out at that part of the track he would've been doing 150 kph at least, so as you could imagine with the car unsettled at such a speed you get into a massive spin, while still being forced forward. How he kept the car off the walls and other cars I 'll never know.

Meanwhile just up the road the second of the dynamik cars did a similar stunt, which ploughed into Seton.

Skaife was on the left, Dynamik in the middle and seton to the right. skaife saw the opportunity to the left to shoot up the inside of the Dynamik car onto the straight and into clear territory, keep in mind he was first and trying to obtain a comfortable lead.

The problem is setons rear quarter panel was hit hard by Dynamik, sort of an "off" T bone, which sent him spearing across towards Skaife. Skaife didnt have time to react, by now he had almost passed the Dynamik car and Seton speared Skaifes front end.

Although many laps later the #2 HRT was back out it wasnt before they had to rip the entire front end off, replace and tape! It looked like a nascar with all that tape! I'd hate to think how much it'll cost them to repair the car, its more then just a new bumper!

Meanwhile between the 2 incidents it caused many other cars to take evasive action, which damaged quite a number of them as well.

My other beef is WPS. Even my dad agreed, Race Control should be able to take them off the track after so many offs, especialy when they did them themselves.

Why? Its a danger. Each time WPS went off then back on they dragged dirt and shite onto the track which made it slippery and dangerous for other cars. Now I agree they werent the only cars to spear off, but c'mon, you have to agree if I asked you which teams cars spent most time off road and caused most of the safety car periods, youd have to say WPS, even from the first corner!

I mean if your a danger on the road (and your caught) your licence is suspended to keep you off the road and keep others safe, similar sorta thing should happen in V8 Supercars. Theres a difference between offs because of lack of concentration, a tap from another car, slippery road etc and constant offs for no real reason

As for the $104 000 fine that was for testing .. the reason is because they were testing at a track other then their nominated test track :confused:

Umm ... they had their cars and transporters taped over so you couldnt tell who it was, and they were at an abandoned air strip in the back of no where. That kidna tells me they were trying to illegally test without being caught.

Thats different to a team taking their car to a different track to test!!

[murph_fan]

yeah dynamik are shit now i hate that team. i also hope they get banned, and all their points taken off that they earnt this year, last year.

[TC Ink]

i totally agree with everything u said
i was laughing at the amountof times the 2 WPS cars went off ^_^
as for team dynamik, they should be banned, after all that illegal testing stuff they come to race 2day and all they do is create carnage!
anyways at least it all turned out good for me... Ford 1,2,3 :)

[VQ]

I was there and by then i was over the race, because Ambrose was way to fast to be legal imo, but I don't think that they delibratly caused it (I saw it from another angle then the tv) but it is racing and the car has problems, but the cars did sound different to the rest of them that I can attest to, even at full bore.

[Y2kGoofball]

VQ - ambroses car was setup for dry. At the beginning of the telecast they asked him and he said it was set at "3/4 dry". About half way thru the race they asked him again and he laughed and said "yeah I might've lied about having it setup 3/4 for dry conditions, I'm glad to see its working but I'm worried if it starts to rain"

I think the other cars were still setup for wet conditions, because there was the suggestion of a rain / hail storm mid way through the race which didnt happen. So I'd say every other car struggled in the dry being setup for the wet except ambrose who excelled in the dry because his car was setup for it, but had it rained he woulda lost the speed

Dynamik - I just read in todays Sydney paper in the sport section that yeserday (Sat) Team Dynamik owner Keiran Wills publically denied the test was illegal and that he had appealed the fine for that reason, and that even Cochrane said it was obviously an illegal test, although the finding was it was a test conducted on a track other then the nominated test track

Umm, hello, everyone knows that if your in the middle of no-where on an abandoned air strip with your car and transporter taped up your up to no good! Fines are good, but c'mon, if they were banned for the rest of the season it gives the message to follow the rules.

What gets me is AVESCO announced after the SBR ECU and CPR suspension issues they were going to be tough as of Sandown, regardless of who the team or driver is, if you broke the rules they would punish you. Although it is an expensive fine I also noticed Dynamik has taken on board DODO, surely thats given them a buldge in the wallet.

As for WPS as I said there should be a rule for that too, I mean as we saw the amount of dirt on the track and in the end we spent far too long under safety car, but thats just my opinion, Ive got nothing against the team but from a viewers point of view after the 15th time I did get sick of it ... oh another safety car

TC anyways at least it all turned out good for me... Ford 1,2,3 NO, Ford 1, 2 CHEAT!!

Another thing ... for us at home, did we see the YELLOW TOO?

Crompton replayed the footage after the ad break and "theres the yellow ... but theres the yellow car in front!"

On replay Luff has definately passed McConville under yellow, there is clearly a yellow flag behind them but Luff well in front of McConville, so I'll be interested to see how that turns out because the officials didnt want to know about that when it happened, but after the race they too decided to have a look into it

I seem to think McConville spends more time checking out the flag officials then the track :rolleyes:

[VQ]

But you should have seen how much quicker he took off over everyone!! I mean at one time before his first pit stop, he was 15 seconds ahead of murphy at least! Literally Ambrose takes the first corner and Murph was just turning onto the straight or just on the pit area! It was insane couldn't beleive it. And did you see how fast he caught up after wiping out?

Attached is Skaife's reapir job, imo I don't think it was deliberate, but who knows, both dynamik cars went off before the race was over and i got some pics of them I think in the pits too.

[VSV6]

I cracked up when I saw this Post name, cause I knew exactly what it was about!
To inform you properly Y2K it was actually the same Dynamik car that caused both accidents.
Poor Skaife and Bright, both in good position and a good possiablility of winning but then some idiot who can't see out his front winscreen continues to race at full speed and wipes em out!
Made for a very crappy race, especially after Ingall just let Ambrose by and didn't even try to catch up. Jason Bright or Skaife should have won that Race, Ambrose had everything go his way (cept the ritter bit but even then he was lucky to get on track)
Ritter got bagged out for almost ruining Ambrose's race, but seriously he was under a lot of pressure and handled it very well in my opinion.
Ambrose's car was a lot faster than everyone else, I was praying for rain because that is the only thing that could have given him such a boost over the rest, again he got lucky.
Just pisses me off when the smug bastard says he raced hard etc.
HE HAD THE DAMN RACE HANDED TO HIM ON A SILVER PLATTER!

Anyway that is my Rant... ^_^

Cheers
-Mike

[VQ]

Ambrose was unnaturally fast though, i mean he accelerated quicker then what everyone else did, and every lap he gained 1 sec at least on the rest of the feild unless he was behind a safety car or was crashing.

[Perko_Rulz]

AVESCO and TEGA are weak as (you know what) and twice as yellow. They say oh, we are proud of how proffessional out sport is and all that but they contradict what they say with their actions. I think that as far as the "High and Mighty" possitions go on the stewards panel, there needs to be a bloody big clean out. Al descisions made by them make or break a series, at the present moment, little cracks are appearing. If this is what they do to a team that is breaking the rules, quite severly I might add, it is sending the wrong messages to teams. Do what you want, we only look like we care. Like Y2K said the sponsors and all identifiable logos and names were blacked out and they were at an old rocket site in no mans land, that sounds like they are playing shifty buggers. On the news recently Mr. Wills said that he and his team were being labelled as cheats. NO SHIT, YOU GET THAT WHEN YOU BREAK THE LAWS OF A SPORT! By my recollection, breaking the rules or laws of a sport to gain advantage is cheating, isn't it???

[Y2kGoofball]

well put Perko -^

Mike even worse then! I was so infuriated I wasnt sure if it was the same ca ror not, although I do know #44 sent Skaife off, and it would make sense because Bright went off toward the end of the back straight and Skaife went off on the last corner onto the main straight

By the time they finished focussing on the Bright group of cars being sent off we were onto the Skaife and Seton cars that went off, so I wasnt sure of it was the same dynamik car or not

VQ - it wasnt deliberate ... the #31 ramming the orrcon car was tho in the early stages of the race ... great road rage!

I'm just mega upset because they deliberately broke the rules for an un fair advantage, yet proclaim they were doing what they thought to be a legal test and are let off with a small fine yet again, I mean Ambroses ECU didnt give an advantage, Richards suspension was for the VX not the VY (some debate the advantage of any this gave, but personally I think none because you can still run a VX with that sort of suspension) and we agree they were still small fines, Skaife, Seton and Jones even mocking it, Brad even saying he cant afford 5 grand but if he can do whatever he likes to the car he'll put a 12 cylinder 8 litre engine in with 4 wheel drive and pay his 5 grand on the way in, because he'll make it back with his Monroe pole award, or skaifey saying he'll enter a Nissan Skyline GTR Twin Turbo in HRT colours ...

but if dynamik did it right even one lap at fuill throttle down an ait strip is enough data to tweak your car just that little more, which in the big race down Conrod that extra 1 kph could be the difference between 3 or 4 seconds in the shootout, or even 1st or 2nd place in the dying laps.

Any car with a speed advantage is lethal, look at ambroses at Sandown... setup for the dry when the other cars were semi-dry, the extra speed showed and it didnt take long for it to hurt,

I'm more angry at the fact they should've been banned, or at least temporarily suspended from V8's ... even moreso with the damage they caused and the potential danger, I mean I'd hate to be skaife this morning .. his neck and back would be killing him, or what if brighty had've hit a wall at that speed?

[VQ]

they don't want to hurt the peoples living's basically, but Ambrose was waaaaaay to quick for just having a different setup. ANyway, I'm pissed off about ambrose, what says that the wire they found before was from a piggyback system? and that they messed up that time and this time they got it right?

[Bo0]

I totally agree with you Y2k. It seemed quite funny to me that in the space of less than 30 seconds, they were involved in two incidents. Its almost as though its a ploy by Dynamik to make the other racers' race a misery. I too believe that the fines being dealt are too light, if anything is found to be suspisious and therefore illegal, the team should have their points stripped of that round or more. Simple. Thats how every other sport operates why not V8 Supercars?

As for Dynamik, well $105 grand or whatever is spare change compared to the budgets of the team, if AVESCO were serious about the sport, they would have them suspended. As somebody else mentioned a while back, Jason Richards may have left due to Dynamik playing funny buggers, well it could may well be...

All this appeals process and pissy fines now is just getting beyond the joke really, there should be some REAL penalties dealt. If you break the rules, you cheated whether it be a holden or a ford.

WPS...hmm well what can you say...

Im beginning to question whether those WPS cars were holdens in disguise? i mean, one of the cars went off a total of 12 times, no less, and most of those caused a restart, almost every time ambrose had a good lead over #51, yet to bunch up the pack.

But i must admit, the WPS cars looked great with all the muck on them, full rally styles :HB:

thats my 2 cents, rip it to shreds! ^_^

[Perko_Rulz]

I heard that Team Dynamik are testing to see if they can fit an areodynamic bullbar to their cars after Sandowns performance. Really, it was like awatching a multimillion dollar demolition derby. In a proffessional motorsport like F1, which many times Cochrane compares the V8's too, they would have their liscences torn up and would be suspended indefinately.

[VQ]

did someone say WPS? I got some pics.....

[Cortina]

Wow,

there are alot of armchair referees here!

Firstly, we dont know why Team Dynamik were on that airstrip, so why make a judgement. Kieran Wills said that they were doing testing for NASA, and while it doesnt seem like the most likely story, it would make sense why they did it in total secrecy! I just think it would be hilarious if NASA or whoever came out now and supported TD's story, all you guys would be eating humble pie!

And Secondly, if you guys would car to notice, The TD car which brighty was involved in, WASNT on the back straight, it was heading towards the final two corners. And the TD has just been rammed up the ass by another car, so was pulling off the raceline, WHICH IS WHAT DRIVERS ARE TOLD TO DO!!! if bright decides to try to go around on the grass, on the outside of a damaged stricken car, then he deserves whatever comes his way, he should be lucky that it was just a spin, and not something more serious!

And for all you people who are trying to make excuses for Ambrose winning, get over yourselves, you whole ****ing lot, because we have just gotten out of a HRT/Mark Skaife streak of 6 seasons, when Ambrose fans could have easily made up excuses about them cheating, when they werent, they were just the better driver and team at the time!!!

GET OVER YOURSELVES YOU BUNCH OF !!!!!!!

[VQ]

I would have accepted it if he wasn't so damn far ahead, I mean if he was 5 seconds at most ahead, then maybe, but a 15 second lead?????

Yeah, I edited the last post because I found it insulting.

[Bo0]

Nice pics vq from the pits, pretty good close-up shots, how much photos did ya end up taking over the whole weekend?

[Cortina]

I was talking to someone who was sitting near dandenong road and he said that ambrose took a different line to everybody else, and was making huge gains from that line!

[Y2kGoofball]

Cortina - fair enough

If you read what we're saying I'm not saying anything about ambrose except the facts, which was he admitted to having a full DRY setup whereas the other cars were semi dry, which is what affected their performance. Had it rained it woulda been a different story. all VQ is saying is from his point of view there was more to why the car had more speed, but thats his point which he's entitled too

As for testing for nasa it doesnt matter what BS story you make up, what your telling me is had it been say Mark Skaife testing for the new VE HSV range which is why they had red tape over their cars and trucks you'd be happy with it?

Rule 3.2.4.7 of Division C - Technical Rules of the 2004 V8 Supercar Manual states No Car may participate in any test in accordance with rule D1 unless the AOM has been advises in writing of the Log Look number of the Cars that will participate in the test

Rule 6.7.17 of Division B Update 6 of the Judicial Rules of the 2004 V8 Supercar manual states A Testing team must not breach any of the provisions of rule D1

Rule D1 can be found here http://www.v8supercars.com.au/downloads/operationsman/2004opman/2004%20Div%20D%20Update%206.pdf in PDF format but basically

Test Track means and includes any:

1.1.4.1 motor racing circuit that holds a current CAMS Track Licence (and its underlined in their rule book too)

it goes on ...

1.1.4.4 any other road, surface or track upon which an automobile can be driven

sounds like its all favouring Dynamik ay

oh, wait ...

D 1.2 Testing Permitted

The testing of any Car, other then at and part of a meeting,will be permitted only subject to all parts of this rule D 1

D 1.4.1 Test Track

Teams or Groups are permitted to test or conduct a Demonstration Session (as defined in rule D 1.11..1.3) at only one (1) test track that holds a current CAMS Track Licence, which must be nominated by the team to TEGA no later then the 1 January 2004

Now the rules contradict themselves because one paragraph says a test track can be any track or surface where a car can be driven, but the next says a test track can only be a track which holds a current CAMS licence??

But to me the last quote above says it all, that the teams can only test on ONE track which holds a CAMS track licence, ie a race track which is used in the Supercar championship or another suitable race TRACK. Tell me, would an abandoned air strip in the middle of nowhere hold a CAMS licence? Probably not, what sort of racing would we see? Drag racing?? I dont know what track Dynamik have nominated, but I'm sure its not an air strip, which is why they've done wrong!

I just think it would be hilarious if NASA or whoever came out now and supported TD's story, all you guys would be eating humble pie!
yes we would, pie is nice, but the rules Ive put above are the rules as of 14/9/2004 and clearly Dynamik have broken D1.4.1

It doesnt matter why their doing it in this case, its where their doing it which has broken the rules of the sport!

[VQ]

No HSV tests at the Lang lang proving grounds, so thats out of the question, but still. The rules are confusing for sure.

[Cortina]

Could you please tell me the log book number or chassis number of the car which was being used in this test session?

[VSV6]

Alrighty, Cortina I would just like to say that I heard EVERY kind of excuse from Ford Fans when Skaife was on his winning streak.
Has anybody noticed that all the Ford fans are comming out of the shadows?
Seems they only appear when they are winning.
And I think Sandown was a freak win for Ambrose, true he probably would have won it anyway, however all the top cars were hard done by which allowed for a very ordinary win in my view.

Cheers
-Mike

[helix]

OkOK You all are ripping out on ambrose's amazing pace but you seem to forget that ingall was fastest for several laps and the johnson/ luff car was fast as well.
What would you do if someone slammed its brakes on in front of you?
thats what happened to luff so any penalty for passing is bull"""".
Holden drivers were taking each other out all day so who was left to challenge ambrose, only rusty and luff.

Ok off my soap box

How tight would brighty's freckel have been when he almost t-boned murph HAHA

I almost cryed with happyness when skaife was hit.

I'm not anti holden just anti skaife!!!!!

[VQ]

Alrighty, Cortina I would just like to say that I heard EVERY kind of excuse from Ford Fans when Skaife was on his winning streak.
Has anybody noticed that all the Ford fans are comming out of the shadows?
Seems they only appear when they are winning.
And I think Sandown was a freak win for Ambrose, true he probably would have won it anyway, however all the top cars were hard done by which allowed for a very ordinary win in my view.

Cheers
-Mike


That's what I've been saying privatly.

[Y2kGoofball]

Cortina I cant but its my understanding they failed to tell TEGA or advise the AOM about the test, as detailed in rule 3.2.4.7, thats before you get into the "do you know the specifics of the log book numbers".

What your also telling me is thats their nominated test track for the test days? I thought like all teams they would've at least selected a circuit to test on, and they wouldnt need to cover up any identifying markings!

What I'm getting at is your talking about how it is possibly a secret test for NASA which is why they didnt tell anyone, and how good it would be if NASA suddenly announced yes it was a test for them ... what I'm getting at is pointing out how it doesnt matter why they were doing it, or who they were doing it for, it matters where they were doing it in this case, and to my knowledge they failed to tell anyone.

Quite obviously the seized equipment from the V8 Supercars showed one of the Dynamik cars had been run on the day, because TEGA and AVESCO studied the data. which is what they based on their finding ... ie yes, it was definately one of their cars which competes in the championship.

I dont know the specifics, I'm not TEGA or AVESCO or Team Dynamik, but from what we've all been told it doesnt matter what you say in their defence, the truth is they have broken rules of the sport which to me is cause for a banning, heck your banned for taking drugs in sports, because its breaking the rules of the sport.

All I was doing was trying to open your eyes at to which rules I can see as them breaking, I dont know the ins and outs of it all.

You can defend them all you like, the realism of it all is that they were caught breaking rules of the motorsport by trying to secretly test, the black tape indicates that, but the AVESCO judiciary failed once again by handing down a small fine because it wasnt their nominated test track.

Helix / all, as ive been saying Ambrose had a dry setup which worked well in the dry! It was risky and even he admitted that during the telecast because had it rained they woulda been stuffed, but the risk payed off because there was no rain during the race

[Mickcals]

Alright now its my turn.

Both Dynamik and WPS raced very poorly over the weekend.

I think WPS should have been disqualified from the race, simple.

Meanwhile Team Dynamik should have gotten various black flags for what they did. #44 pass on Seton (when he went flying into Skaife) simple stop-go penalty, #45's move on Jim Richards a drive through penalty, simple. WHat are the stewards doing watching the finals football on channel nine!!!!!!!

Ambrose was amazing, the car was right, the drivers were right, everything went right for them.

There was nothing illegal with Ambroses car, i think Y2k is right, SBR must have taken a risk and given both cars dry weather setup.

But a think most of the Fords were fast on the Sunday, i mean look at it. John Bowe started 21st (remember JB doesn normally start the race for the Enduros, normally Jones does) and he got that car into the top 10 easily. THe Ozemail car was very fast, but slowed but by traffic, im sure if they started in the top 5 they would have easily made the podium.

Both Johnson and Luff were very fast up slowed towards the race end. Also i dont think there was enough time for Luff to slow down when the yellow flag came out it was either pass McConville or plow right into the back of him!!!

Also both Skaife and Bright were fast, but allt he Holden drivers seem to be knocking each other of the road, normally Ford does that to themselves in the past, not Holden.

Also i think that some of the other Ford teams have finally come to grips with the BA Falcon, like Occron Racing and DJR.

BRING ON BATHURST, that should be a very good race


(minus Team Dynamik and WPS)

[Y2kGoofball]

it worked for thexton so anythings possible!

[VQ]

I say Bring on bathurst without SBR, WPS (which means no safety car), Team Dynamik, DJR, and most other ford teams, it was a fluke and we will get it, but it's amazing how the ford fans come out of the woodwork when they win too....

[Mickcals]

So VQ your saying that the only way holden can win Bathurst this year is if the top two Ford teams at Sandown (and most of the other Ford teams) is if you ban them.

I hardly doubt that Holden could still win i mean FPR should be able to win if that were the case

[Y2kGoofball]

nah I think Skaife especially will be cautious this year, Bathurst last year he had the door problem thanks to Bowe ^_^ then Sandown this year was Dynamik

The rule of Bathurst is to keep it cool and not get caught up in anyones mess, if Skaife can do that then I think we'd be in for a HRT win again

I'd still tip Murph/Kelly and definately Bright/Weel for the Holdens, with maybe a splash of GRM, maybe

[Mickcals]

In think its going to be very difficult picking a winner this year.

YEah i agree with you Y2k, but all driver should be keeping their cool and staying out of trouble.

Look at last year for example Lowndes/Seton came out of no where and was suddenly 3rd (and then 2nd)

Same with Murphy and Rick Kelly they stayed out of trouble and they won.

Thats the rule of Bathurst

[monaro]

they did a bit more than stay out of trouble. the k-mart team had astonishing pace the whole weekend.

tander/mcconville for me, although tander is the one more likely to beach it in the pair.

[VQ]

well, ok maybe not ban Ford teams, just injure the drivers the day before the race starts maybe :p

[Y2kGoofball]

yes now youve gone into more of an understandable Holden supporter VQ ;)

It will be difficult to pick a winner, because anything can happen

As monaro pointed out KRT last year had a fair bit of pace, similar to Ambrose at Sandown, the lap time reflected this and as you said privately Mickcals Murph admitted to missing a gear on that hot lap, imagine then how quicker it wouldve been had it been a smooth lap

[Bo0]

heh yeah be set for even quicker times this year, maybe drop a few 1:47's like on V8 Challenge? ^_^

Anyway, i hope that the guys that messed up peoples races at sandown like WPS and TD i fear that they could do the same at Bathurst, so ii just hope that they take eachother out so we can have some good hard racing at the Mountain, and as we all know if you are tangled up it can be a very long day.

[Mickcals]

as you said privately Mickcals Murph admitted to missing a gear on that hot lap

Well he reckons theres a few more tenths of a second left.

[Y2kGoofball]

well it killed what was shaping up to be a good race

I mean Skaife in first, Murph in second

Bright in 10th with Ambrose in 11th, both trying to get back to the top.

I honestly thought we'd see some good racing between Ambrose and Bright as they tried to make it back up the order, and Skaife and Murph as they battled for the lead

Instead we saw Bright and Skaife taken out, Ambrose missed all the crashed and stopped traffic and quite easily went from 11th to 1st in what, half a lap? He lead from there when the safety car wasnt out to retrieve WPS and it tuned into a boring race

[VQ]

He also got an amazing lead on the first lap and every time except for once after the safety cars restarte, but the weather was at fault at bathurst, lets hope it's one steady weather, so that we don't get a repeat of what happened.

[Mickcals]

gees hasnt this wandered off topic

[VSV6]

^_^ Yeh only a little bit ;)

Cheers
-Mike

[Mickcals]

Well anyway i was watching a replay of the Sandown 500 yesterday and i noticed that both team Dynamik cars were involved in two different incidents just metres away from each other - car #44 was the one who spun Jason Bright at Dandalong Road, almost taking out Ambrose and Luff, and Team Dynamik car #45 was the one who took out both Seton adn Skaife just up the road.

Cause if you watch the replay of Bright being spun around in the back ground you can see Seton being spun in front of Skaife

[Bo0]

yeah thats right, they both happened at once pretty mucj , which is why i find it very odd as it could be "planned" to take out the cars. Either that or their drivers lack common sense and decency.