Which Car?

[VQ]

Well, my Gran's old 91 1.5 laser 5 doorhatch is getting a bit long in the tooth and parts are dieing and she is on the market for a replacement car, and she asked me which does she get?

Now, I automatically said an Astra but I know it isn't the be all and end all, because I'm not sure about small-medium cars because she need a small medium car for less then $20,000 that can carry 4 tall grandchildren at a time, 5 if u have a younger one, which is best to get as far as parts and insurance and fuel effiecency?

Do I say new or used? It is cheaper inthe long run to get a second hand low k car but I'ms till not sure.

Chris I'm looking at u and I'm sure your gonna say jazz, but I'm not sure of the dimensions of it and whether it can hold 4 people comfortably, she also does long trips so it needs to have highway manners too, basically the only options are Japenese cars or an Astra.

[chris]

Go for a Peugeot 307.

Loaded with equipment, good looking, comfortable inside, well built, drives very nicely.

Also it is fitted with reasonable safety equipment as standard.

It is very good value. Turbo-diesel is the best bet for good fuel economy, and long touring range.

Or of course if you need a lot of space, go the Renault Scénic. It has lots of space inside it, and plenty of headroom. Go to a dealer and they'll demonstrate to your nonna how clever they've been with its interior.

But the Renault Scénic isn't as well built as the 307. A Golf would be a safe choice, but you pay premium prices for those and get very little in the way of extras thrown in..

So, in summary, I say go for the Pug 307 5 door, with turbo-diesel engine if possible.

[chris]

Here is a brochure:

http://www.peugeot.com.au/PEUGEOT/AU/RESOURCES/IMAGES/pdfs/pdf307.pdf

There is a 307 Touring now as well, which might be worth looking at too.

Argh, less than $20,000.. =[ There goes the 307.. It's 25,000 at the least.. Best of the others in the price range might indeed be a Honda Jazz. It'll take 4 with no problems.

Unless of course you do a trade-in on the Ford, and go for a 307..

[VQ]

I didn't thin of the Peugeot mainly because I didn't think it cost less then $20,000 and Europeon cars cost a bit to replace parts, even consumable items.

[chris]

Don't worry, I wasn't taking note of the price limitation.. (I'lll pay more attention next time).

Although it could be possible to get a 307 1.6 5 door for under AUD$20,000 with a trade-in..

I thought of the 307 because it is a pretty safe purchase, and comes well fitted out for the reasonable price you pay. I also thought it is rather handy that it includes as standard the sort of safety equipment others don't include at all..

[VQ]

SHe also wants an Auto as she dislikes using Manuals, I think I'm gonna have to do more research.

[chris]

The Jazz then is the pick, with the CVT transmission. None of the others can hope to match the efficiency of the Jazz engine/CVT transmission combination.

You might be able to pick up a demonstrator Pug 307 XS Hdi 5 door for $20,000 however, with an auto transmission. The torque of the Pug diesel engine should make running with an auto not much trouble.

I also mention Peugeot because I have good memories of the old 306. It was a pretty good car, very likeable.

[butcher]

Go the Astra! We all know its an Opel but we'll call it a Holden and remain semi-patriotic.

[VQ]

Thanks Chris for that, wat are the dimensions for the jazz? I know that they are like 16,990 because they are a class smaller then the Astra but I think when she goes for a test drive she will have to bring some grandkids along to make sure they like it ^_^

[chris]

Have a look on honda.com.au in the automobiles section (since it does exotic 2 wheeled stuff, and various other stuff).

The Jazz might be small, but it is one of many cars that is small on the outside, but cleverly arranged inside, to give maximum space.

I think the Jazz to go for is on with the CVT transmission, for sure. It's better than the manual transmission versions, and way better than rivals with their conventional autos.

Just be warned in a Jazz with CVT, it will sound really strange at first. The engine will always be at the right revs, all the time. There is a manual mode that runs from the steering wheel buttons though.

In that price range, it's the only one that really stands out in the crowd.

I think the others like Astra and Corolla and so on are not bad (the newer Corolla being a big improvement over the old one), but the versions below $20,000 would probably not have much thrown in as standard.

[VQ]

It better well have LOL I will recommend it to her, I don't thinks she realy listens to the engine anyway because the Laser is automatic as well but has the 1.5 carby motor in it, I was suprised by that when I opened up the bonnet the other day but still.

[Mickcals]

How about a Mazda 2 or a VW Golf

Are these any good to to you.

Cause others could be a Ford Laser or Focus or Fiesta, Mitsubishi Mirage.

Just some suggestions

[VQ]

Well unless a Mirage and fiesta can hold 4 large people reletivly comfortably they are out, the Focus is too expensive, Mazda 2 is ugly and I dislke them, and VW golf is way to much if u read.

[Wazza]

Seems you already got your ideas together. Funny a few years back, my best mate was also helping his Nana buy a good car...He was recommending a Holden Commodore (in the hope he could drive it too). She didn't fall for the idea, and with her age and all, I wouldn't feel safe driving around when she's at the controls of the large commodores. Finally she settled with a Toyota 3 dr hatch. Not a Corolla, but something else. She had a 1990ish Corolla previous..

Of course any Jap car will have easily accessible parts.

What I don't like about new cars, is they devalue like 30-50% in the first 2-3 years. How about picking out a better small-medium car, that is say 2 years old. Lost most of its rapid devaluing, but still very low km's and reliable etc.

[VQ]

When I talk about Astra's I'm on about second hand ones but evena city model costs more then Holden is selling them new.

[chris]

They are trying to dump Astras here in Sydney at the moment for AUD$19,990, for 5 door models.

Don't ask me what model it is, I only saw the end of the TV advertisement. It was one of those run out sort of things.. You know, the hurry up and help us get rid of the old models before the new one arrives sort of thing.. ;)

[VQ]

I know, but I can't find any citys less then 20,000 with a automatic, even tho new they are 22 but there arent' any online.

[chris]

The advert didn't mention anything about online.. They mentioned visiting your Holden dealer..

Some online-sales/auctions for cars see the cars go at ridiculous prices..

[blackice111288]

i'd go for a 2001+ Camry LE. i drove one (automatic) a few months back, really comfortable, you'd think you was in a lexus (wait, toyota is lexus over there isnt it?). What i liked most was that it handles real good, and really goes when you floor it. im like 6' or 6'1" and i fit nice in the driver seat and the back bench (with three of of my friends from auto tech, one of us drove from the parking lot to the auto shop, i drove back when we finished changing the oil.)

[VQ]

BUt the problem witht hem is that they are too big for her, she doesnt need a biger car, she needs one a similar size.

The Lexus is a Lexus here too, the ES300 is almost the same as a Camry but is RWD.

[chris]

ES300 = lardy front drive rubbish.

Nice interior, but the rest is not nice. The thing rocks and lurches about.. Hardly what you'd call the "relentless pursuit of perfection".

[VQ]

Well I don't know about lexus's because I think they are overpriced Toyotas (the 4x4 one is a landcruiser with a leather interior and a lexus badge) I hate hte new medium Lexus 4x4, i've seent he precious model around (black import) I HATE when people do that, like the same with prado's we already have enougha d people import them, also the tarago's are imported to and itz horrible.

[blackice111288]

Originally posted by Vqcapricedude
BUt the problem witht hem is that they are too big for her, she doesnt need a biger car, she needs one a similar size.

The Lexus is a Lexus here too, the ES300 is almost the same as a Camry but is RWD.

are you serious? a camry too big? are we talking about the same car?:D
a camry cant be that much bigger than a 4 door civic, probably like a foot, and thats exagerrating. i guess the only thing that could meet her demands would be an astra, or a 2dr civic. belive it or not, you can fit back there and be comfortable

[chris]

The thing is fat like a whale.. :ack:

It's definately no design masterpiece, even as far as practical family cars go.

Funnily enough, it handles better than its lexus sibling, the ES300.. Why didn't the Camry suspension setup stay on the ES300? :rolleyes:

The one Lexus that is good is the big, expensive one, the LS. The old LS400 might have looked a bit sleepy, and conservative, but put the foot down and that silent V8 engine reveals that it is quite potent - enough to deliver serious acceleration: like 0-100km/hr in 7.0 seconds. Not bad for 207kW in a 1.7 tonne car with an automatic transmission.

Surprisingly, the things actually do alright in the on-road rally events as well. Given more open stages, the thing can make use of its power and grip and make good speed, all while insulating its occupants from the outside world.

It's probably the definative Lexus. Great quality, great refinement, great interior, with a bit of performance thrown in for good measure. Not overtly sporty, but enough to get you to your destination quickly enough.

The IS isn't a bad little thing either, it sort of takes the Lexus name in a different, more sporty direction. It's actually a quite fast car point to point, the IS200, but the driver needs some skill since the small but very smooth inline-6 doesn't exactly have huge power, so you must drive smoothly, and make use of its precise cornering abilities, and good grip.

[blackice111288]

dont forget the GS300 and GS400 chris!

[blackice111288]

well, i guess your grandma should go for a corolla

[chris]

Corollas are too expensive, they are above AUD$23,000, and the prices soar above AUD$25,000 the moment you dare think of adding some essential options.

The base model is a poverty pack with nearly nothing included.

[blackice111288]

Originally posted by chris
Corollas are too expensive, they are above AUD$23,000, and the prices soar above AUD$25,000 the moment you dare think of adding some essential options.

The base model is a poverty pack with nearly nothing included.

are u serious? whats with the price inflation? they dont cost that much over here.

[chris]

The Corollas sold in USA might be different to our ones, and also remember to convert US Dollars to AUD. 1 AUD equals about $0.7775 US.

[blackice111288]

oh, thats $18,000. thats not that bad.

[Mickcals]

Hey VQ, what about a Hyundai Getz, my Uncle owns one and its as roomy as a Commodore, and under $20 000, plus they are the best looking Hyundais.

[chris]

"Hey VQ, what about a Hyundai Getz, my Uncle owns one and its as roomy as a Commodore, and under $20 000"

I can hardly wait to read VQ's response.. ;)

But seriously, Getz is a better attempt by Hyundai. It just sort of skipped the final classes in finishing school, as evidenced by a few niggles and quibbles it does have.

[Mickcals]

i cant wait as well, it would be interesting to see what he says.

Nah my Uncle used to own a VX Commodore, but because my Aunty was too short to see out of the windsheild, so he ended up getting a Getz

I would consider this car seriously as it is a decent car and it fits the description made by VQ - a small car, that can fit 3 tall adults in the back for under $20 000

[blackice111288]

whats a Getz look like?

the new 6cyl. Verona is nice. dont know any price figures or any thing though

[chris]

Getz (or Click as it is called elsewhere) is a imitation of the Euro "super-mini" class of car.. Think VW Polo, Peugeot 206, Skoda Fabia, Ford Fiesta and so on..

Problem is, that it while it does look good, it fails miserably at the things cars like the Pug 206 do well - the driving enjoyment part.

[VQ]

A Getz? A Getz? Please, I've read wat Chris has siad I listen to wat Chris says and the Getz might hold 3 people but we want to hold 5 on a short trip, like the laser does, and my Dad told her not to get a Hyandai for Koreon car anyway.

Next time I see her I'm gonan recommentd the Honda because it is the only car I knwo is under 20,000 with Air con and automatic.

[chris]

But ultimately, you makes your choice and you pays your money (to take a well known statement out of the vintage and quite conservative Wheels magazines).

Getz/Click honestly isn't that bad a thing, it's just got a couple of quibbles in the way of the auto transmission ratios not being ideally suited to the small engine. They are far too long, and the engine hasn't a hope of dealing properly with them.

A larger V6 powered car might have those sorts of gear ratios, but a low powered 4 cylinder should never have them, just for the sake of efficiency.

That Honda though is a really hot deal, coming loaded with nearly everything, and being at such a unusually cheap price for what it is.. Normally you might explain it down to poor build quality, or some cost cuts made somewhere, but the Honda is built like a Honda, and has latest technology too, all of which can not be cheap to develop. That is what makes it more remarkable.

[VQ]

Althought I don't like hondas that much, the Jazz seems to be the only new car that fills the criteria for a new car, but finidng a auto Astra for les then 20,000 wiith lowish kms is hard as I have found. But if I look hard enough I might find one.

[blackice111288]

Originally posted by Vqcapricedude
A Getz? A Getz? Please, I've read wat Chris has siad I listen to wat Chris says and the Getz might hold 3 people but we want to hold 5 on a short trip, like the laser does, and my Dad told her not to get a Hyandai for Koreon car anyway.

Next time I see her I'm gonan recommentd the Honda because it is the only car I knwo is under 20,000 with Air con and automatic.

am i okay? did i read this thing right? VQ recommending a Honda ? never thought id see the day.^_^

[VQ]

Itz only because the Holde that I want is gonna cost too much and she doesn't like the Barina (corsa) for some reason.

I mean itz not like I'm gonna be traveling in it or my gran is gonna modify it at all.

[blackice111288]

Barina? isnt that the cool little hatch back that looks something like a civic hb?

[chris]

http://www.arabadergisi.com/mp/opel/opel-corsa-01.jpg
http://www.arabadergisi.com/mp/opel/opel-corsa-02.jpg

http://www.automotriz.net/2003/galeria/images/1024x768-Opel-Corsa-01.jpg

[blackice111288]

yeah, thats it. wasn't there a little red 2 door version with a 1.8 liter inline 4 on the Holden website?

[VQ]

The only two door I can think of is the astra coupe, but they don't sell that here, thats a 3 door and the smallest u can get.

I prefer a Astra turbo coupe but they don't sell the coupe here but they have the 3 door hatchback and Convertible.

[blackice111288]

is it true that austrailia is(or was) gonna get a HSV version of the Opel speedster?

[VQ]

I heard that rumor too. But they arent'gonna import hat, maybe modify a Astra with a vectra v6 but no vectras and no other new cars.

They looked into importing and converting Corvettes too, but it would sell for about $150,000

[blackice111288]

i dont think any one would pay that much for a corvette, when you can get a commodore and have it goin faster than a vette fot less money.

speedsters are bad tho, the elise is probably the closest we'll (USA) get to a speedster.

[VQ]

But the Corvette isn't just aobut power, itz a status symbol, itz Sex-on-wheels, it is the orignal American sportscar and looks it too, I mean sure u could get a Ls1 engine commodore or Monaro but it doesn't match th Corvette for looks as the Corvette is a one of a kind.

[chris]

A Ferrari or Lambo is sex on wheels (if you can't get a girl in a Lambo, then you might as well give up altogether), but a Corvette? Maybe in the US, but it doesn't have such a reputation here.

Viper and Mustang's legendary reputations sort of didn't seem to mean much here. Mustang I understand, but the Viper, quibbles considered is strangely addictive. The thing gets hot inside, and the ergonomics were not too great, but when that V10 thunders.. :D

blackice111288: There were some rumours that Holden might sell the Opel Speedster as the Holden Speedster, but the idea was very sadly put to one side. Apparently it didn't fit in the model range too well.. Or maybe it clashed too much with the big engined rear-drive cars it also tries to sell.

It would have been a great car to have on sale, but sadly it didn't happen. Your best bet now is a Lotus Elise with the 140kW Toyota inline-4 in it, or if you need something more hard-core, go for the brand new Exige, also powered by the Toyota engine. They'll even fit an FIA-approved roll-cage if you are required to have that installed for your racing activities.

Yes, they are not kidding about the use of that car. It might be road-legal, but they know what it'll be used for by many. It was probably intentional. The market for weekend-racers is quite a lucrative one. Look what happens when Porsche releases the latest GT2 or GT3 Clubsport, or Carrera GT, or when Ferrari releases a new Challenge model.. :eek:

[blackice111288]

But the Corvette isn't just aobut power, itz a status symbol, itz Sex-on-wheels


not in america. mustangs wont get you too far either, chris:D. nowadays the men who get the most looks are in the SUV's with large chrome rims 20+" or customised imports or a lowrider. or like u said chris, a lambo-^

[blackice111288]

the exige is coming along with the elise? :D im a start saving my lunch money, allowance, random pennies found on the ground, handouts ect.....^_^ but seriuosly, that car is off the hook from the ground up. im glad america is starting to get some of the fun cars from around the world, instead of all these restyled cars we've seen a million times already.

[chris]

I don't know if America will get the Exige, but Australia will get it, same as the last one.

The last one could possibly be the most outrageous car on the roads outside of an F1 LM, or a Lamborghini Diablo GT.

[Radical-Al]

"restyled cars we've seen a million times already"

Hey, nothing wrong with the 2005 mustang you know.

Also, the 2000 Mustang Cobra R is really a nice mustang to see... and is rare here.... must be super rare in Europe. It can go against the Corvette...

The Viper is an undissable car :D

I've seen 2 Exiges here... at least at the 24 Hours @ Daytona... I missed my chance to take a picture of it this year though :'( but not last year.

[VQ]

Well the classic Corvettes are and the new ones too cos they are less common then a Mustang and built a lot better. It might just be in street machining circles but still, u can't say no to a 69' vette with a 427 and a 6/71 poking out of the bonnet.

[wello]

Originally posted by blackice111288
not in america. mustangs wont get you too far either, chris:D. nowadays the men who get the most looks are in the SUV's with large chrome rims 20+" or customised imports or a lowrider. or like u said chris, a lambo-^

well here in oz it works a little different

jap boxs work up to the mid 20 year olds maybe a bit older

Corvettes mustangs hot holdens and fords of any age will always get the looks here and hot euro cars aswell

rice might be nice but you'll never beat the sound and go of a hot V- 6- 8 -10 or 12

[chris]

I think the best sound comes from a well tuned 8 or 12 cylinder engine.

I used to reckon Ferrari had gone soft with its 8 cylinder engines, after the quieter and not so melodious 360 Modena, but damn that 360 Challenge Stradale sounds good. :love: Loud enough to give people plenty of warning that it is arriving soon.. ;)

I heard an F50 a while back, it was being driven quickly. I have to admit it makes a sound like nothing else I've heard. The noise is frankly unbelievable. :eek:

The newer Enzo Ferrari goes better, undoubtedly, but it doesn't sound as nice. It doesn't remind you of old Ferrari 12 cylinder GP engines, as the revs flare on the downshifts. The F50 does. :)

[blackice111288]

i think the best sounds come from a turbo charged 4cyl, 6cyl, and 10cyl, and12 cyl. i just dont like how the v8's sound. it sounds like there going brrlummphfffff! im not saying theyre not good engines, i just dont like the choppy sound. the best sound comes from inline6's tho.

[chris]

Take a listen to this then (trust me, they are virus free):

Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale, 425hp 3586cm³ cinquevalvole V8
(from outside, lapping Pista di Fiorano):
http://www.totalnfs.net/cpd/Sound001.mp3

That one is really loud, compared to other models in the 360 range.

Ferrari F355, 388hp 3495cm³ cinquevalvole V8
(from inside, accelerating to 270km/hr):
http://www.totalnfs.net/cpd/Sound002.mp3

Ferrari F355 Spider, 388hp 3495cm³ cinquevalvole V8:
http://www.totalnfs.net/cpd/Sound005.mp3

But the best of all is this, called by some "the diva":
http://www.totalnfs.net/cpd/lastofthev12s.mp3

That last one was the final V12 Ferrari Formula 1 car, driven by both Gerhard Berger and Jean Alesi. It was probably one of the most dramatic sounding F1 cars of all time.

[VQ]

I love the deep burble of a big block v8 or even a small block, they sound so tough and if the note is deep enough, it can sound like a deep bass stereo.

A turbo 4, well most fot he oens I have around here (which are all Jap) sounds like oversized lawn mower going Pssshht (thatz the Blow off valve betweent he gears) and 6's well they have a slight note, but straight sixes are to smooth for a rumbly note, but a V6 like the Original holden 3.8 which is based on a V8 can sound like an eight too.

[wello]

hmm many years ago i had a eh wagon with fully house 179 in it good for a 130mph in 1985 and were we lived the wife could hear me coming when i was still about 5 miles away ahh the good old days ^_^
you can make a 6 sound as good as a 8 my worked 4.1 sounds great people always ask me if its a 8

[VQ]

Yer I guess, but not little 2 litre ohc jap engines, My m8's mums old EL Fairmont had lpg fitted and a different cam and the idle sounded like an eight. they have a BA XR6 now.

[chris]

VQ: Can you have a talk to Frank N.O. about that XR6 you just mentioned. Maybe you could organise some sharing of information (blueprints, suspension measurements, technical data).

He was looking for some info on those.

Wello: Yes, some 6 cylinder engines do sound good. Among the best in my opinion are the BMW M3, the Skyline GT-R (in standard tune), and the glorious V6 in the Honda NSX.

The NSX possibly has the best sounding V6 engine I've heard. It really sings. :love:

http://www.autoweek.nl/download/multimedia/honda/hondansx2.mp3

That's what a modern NSX sounds like, at full noise. It's a nice sound, but quieter than normal for a sportscar. It's one of those things that Ayrton Senna used to praise the NSX for. He criticised other sportscars as being too rough, too noisy, or too difficult to drive to be used every day. The NSX is not like that. (So he claimed).

Nice to say that Ayrton was right. NSX is still a great drivers car after so many years. It corners with the best, and the steering is incredibly precise. If you give it enough straight, it will wind out to about 280km/hr, even with the modestly powerful (for todays times) 3.2 litre V6.

The NSX's qualities are enough to make anyone understand why it rewrote the sportscar rule-book completely when it was released. Ferrari especially took note, hence the excellent F355.

I wonder if the F355 would have been so superb, had the NSX not arrived.

[blackice111288]

Originally posted by Vqcapricedude
I love the deep burble of a big block v8 or even a small block, they sound so tough and if the note is deep enough, it can sound like a deep bass stereo.

A turbo 4, well most fot he oens I have around here (which are all Jap) sounds like oversized lawn mower going Pssshht (thatz the Blow off valve betweent he gears) and 6's well they have a slight note, but straight sixes are to smooth for a rumbly note, but a V6 like the Original holden 3.8 which is based on a V8 can sound like an eight too.


i love the way the turbo 4's sound. its the 1.6's that sound like lawn mowers. ^_^ flat 4s (horizontaly opposed, like in impreza) sound good too.

i think the reason i dont like the sound of the 8's is cause they rumble.


remember the kid i told yall about that thinks u can turbo and supercharge a car? well today in 5th per he tried to tell me that his 1998 dakota(v6, not 5.9L v8) and every other truck is faster than any import, even tuned ones. he said the same thing about a stock 51 chevy coupe being super fast. they only had 265 hp and 9sec for 0-60!! i came at him with nothing but specs and truth and he said some junk from the Fast and The Furious about how the charger murdered the supra. YO!!!! ITS A MOVIE!!!!
dont get me wrong chargers are fast, but stock mid 14sec 1/4 mile times (i think 14.3) wont beat a 13.1. plus the charger had full slicks. if it really had 900hp, it probably would run mid to low 10's if they really put all the parts that they had on the floor on the movie in the car, the charger would have lost. not by alot, "but winning's winning. ask any real street racer. it doesnt matter if its by a inch or a mile."^_^ (remember? Dom said that.)he thinks that just because a car has a bigger engine thats its faster. he said a 8 is a real mans engine. my other friend thats into imports looked at me and we both just laughed. he said some thing about his neighbors 1500 Ram had some go to it. okay...., my mom&dads suburban has go to it, but 16sec and lower passes wont beat anything short of a stock civic hf with a broke CV joint and a potato in the exhaust pipe.

hey chris, he says that a yenko comaro would smoke a tuned lancer evo. ^_^ i told him when the first ones came out, they were running low 14's and the 7's and 8's run 13.3. yenkos run what, 13.7,8? dont let us even start to get on handling:D

[VQ]

I still don't know y u compare the cars, I mean the japense cars are all at least a metre shorter then the old muscle cars and the muscle cars have charactor (apparantly itz when theres things wrong with it ^_^ ) but I haven't seen a EVO or Impreza in Australia hasn't run quicker then a 11 with street tyres and we have ls1's with onl;y 400 rwhp (up from 225FWKW ) running high tens now with stock rear ends and six speed Manuals, noe get a nice Auto behind em and they run mid 10's or quicker.

But no matter how much fun it is to compare a car from the 60's to a new high tech car with 40 computers or soemthing, it isn't fiar on the old car cos they didn't use any computers, they had big carbys and cubes.

A small lighter car of course will outhanld a large heavy car, but then again a 600hp cast iron block v8 supercar will run rings around a lot of cars that are setup for track use.

[blackice111288]

back in NC, this shop had a impreza running 9's with 800 something hp. i heard about it, never got a chance to see it. But if people over there tune EVO's and STi's, it should be gangs of 10- second Evo's and STi's, since they run low 13's stock.

U ever heard of Norris Designs? they have a street legal lancer Evo package and it has 605 awhp on low boost(20psi) 650 on high boost(29psi), 2.4 sec 0-60, and low 10sec 1/4mile times, and pulls .95g or something like that. it only weighs 2300lbs. theres supposedly a 705 awhp version in australia on Nitrous. it'd watch out for a white lancer with black graffics if i were you.:D

[VQ]

Chris: I guess I'll have to do that won't i?

Ne way Blackice, there are so many Lancrs that have been done up I can't tell a real Evo from a kitted one cos I don't look for them and 600hp isn't anything to a v8 as u have seen from the 1200rwhp twin turbo v8, with twin turbos and a stock LS1 u can make 600rwhp.

And EVo's are not that common here comapred with Sti's cos they don't sell them that often here and they dont'run tens because the clutch and the gearboxes break at 11's and they don't know about Auto gearboxes for some reason.

[chris]

An automatic transmission in a Lancer Evo would be a sin. ;) (At least for the driving purists).

Those have manual gearboxes in them, always. It's about the control factor, of being able to select gears when you want.

You can always pick a real Lancer Evo when it goes fast.

The sound is very distinctive. They belt out a very loud, and raw sounding noise.

Maybe you might remember the Lancer Evo V and VI that Tommi Makinen used to race? If you remember how that sounded, then you know how the road-going Evo's sound. They sound the same.

On the Evolution VI Tommi Makinen Edition, the sound of the engine is enough to scare the hell out of you the first time you hear it. It's hard to believe how noisy it is.

If the noise doesn't stir you then the crazy acceleration and cornering forces certainly will. The torque from that 2.0 litre turbocharged engine is unbelievable. From 2000rpm, it absolutely slams you back into the seat with a huge rush of acceleration. But the linear nature of the torque is more amazing. It feels like it is spread across a wide range, and that is very good.

In the handling as well, it seems so razor sharp. :)

It's so amazing how good these Lancer Evos are, and how miserably dull the ordinary Lancer is. They are like two different cars. You'd think that some of the expertise lavished on the Evo models might also be put to good use on the average models too, but it seems that is not the case. :(

The Subaru STi's are more common here, but the Lancers are the better car for high performance driving. The Subaru is more comfort orientated (fine for most conditions), but when you want absolute best cornering performance, and overall performance, the Lancer Evo's, are best.

Over here sadly, the Lancer Evo's are a limited edition model, sold by Mitsubishi in very low volumes, that always sell out extremely quickly.

There is a place in Melbourne that sells brand new Evos privately imported from Japan I think. They also seem to provide good support for the cars they sell, stocking parts for them, and parts that are not in stock, can be ordered and arrive in Australia quickly.

[monaro]

what a coincidence, my grandma also is looking for a car as her 1984 mercedes 300D is getting a bit tired and she wants a new car.

we looked at second hand 206's and 306's, and new 307's (bit out of our price range we thought) and also civics.

we have since upped our budget and are looking very keenly at the 307.

any thoughts?

[VQ]

I knew u were gonna say that chris, but were talking about piont to piont straight line drag racing, which is compeletly different and having a auto is better for drag racing cos it shifts quicker and u won't miss a gear.

Also, the amount of lancer here that have exaust are insane and UI ahven't heard a real evo so I don't know wat they sound like (i've watched WRC)

[chris]

Here is an Evo:

http://www.8200rpm.com/Video_Section/Ringspecials/vkd_8200rpm_ringspecial01_lancerevo.wmv

It's a Evolution VI TME.

If gives an idea of the level of noise inside these things. Everything makes noise, and plenty of it. Engine puts out a raspy blast of noise, gearbox whirrs and whines, things rattle, the brakes emit a screech on occasions.

It's absolutely aimed at performance. Forget comforts, or luxuries. That is something this car doesn't have.

The video is large, but is absolutely worth the download. It goes for about 10 minutes.

[chris]

monaro: Yeah, the 307 is good. As I always say, go for the diesel version. The driver of it might not like the offensive smell of the diesel fuel, but the lovely fuel economy will leave the driver pleasantly surprised.

As will the long touring range. It is true that a 406 ST HDi achieved 1760km on one tank of diesel!

Also, the turbo-diesel engines are quite relaxed things, they don't rev too much, but have decent torque.

The driver of the car will also want to wear gloves whenever filling the car with diesel. The diesel pumps at the fuel stations always seem to be coated with a fine film of diesel. Not only does it leave your hands malodorous, but also seems to cause skin irritations.

But, diesel stink aside, the Pugs are nicely suited to Australian roads. I think before I put a brochure link, feel free to download it, or print it.

If your grandma has impaired mobility, something like a Renault Scénic might be a better choice. It is quite easy to get in and out of, since its seats are a little higher than normal, and the cabin also has more height (entry and exit are slightly easier).

[blackice111288]

Originally posted by Vqcapricedude
I knew u were gonna say that chris, but were talking about piont to piont straight line drag racing, which is compeletly different and having a auto is better for drag racing cos it shifts quicker and u won't miss a gear.

Also, the amount of lancer here that have exaust are insane and UI ahven't heard a real evo so I don't know wat they sound like (i've watched WRC)

nothing wrong with auto's, but i've always considered manuals better for strait line racing cause you can hold them in gear for as long as u need, while auto's shift to save gas

btw, how does 525awhp (@29psi) sound in a Evo8? i dunno if u guys get Modified magazine, but theyre tuning a lancer and so far this is what theyve got, on stock internals.

they got 12.0 on 365awhp, they havent tested it with the nu number yet they had 385awhp on the stock turbo, but they upgraded it to a GT32 (garret GT series).
366@14.5;400@18psi;440@22psi,480@25psi,and 525@29psi.

[blackice111288]

those Evo's are almost as noisy as a SR20DET. the 4G61-t's are a lot smoother sounding than those silvia motors. i heard some guy's S14 a few nights ago, and i knew it wasn't stock cause i heard that growl that screamed "SR20! SR20!" is kinda wierd, like a impreza mived with a s2000&( -^

[VQ]

balckice: Thatz bullshit about a auto changin gera to save fuel, they do it cos itz set by the computer to change gears once u make maximum torque or watever because u don't need to rev it harder then that line cos it just uses more fuel, also auto's don't miss gears or accidentily redline while changing gears either, itz more accuracte and wat ever ur veiws are theya re wrong for the street machine community, just go down to ur local off street legal drags and u will find out tghat they mostly run Autos as it is quicker to change then human control, all top drag cars use it, but it may be manualized whcih means u can change gears ursself but without a clutch.

Sorry for the rambling on but I'm getting sick of u not understadning that a Auto is better for straight line drag racing.

[monaro]

Originally posted by chris
monaro: Yeah, the 307 is good. As I always say, go for the diesel version. The driver of it might not like the offensive smell of the diesel fuel, but the lovely fuel economy will leave the driver pleasantly surprised.

As will the long touring range. It is true that a 406 ST HDi achieved 1760km on one tank of diesel!

Also, the turbo-diesel engines are quite relaxed things, they don't rev too much, but have decent torque.

The driver of the car will also want to wear gloves whenever filling the car with diesel. The diesel pumps at the fuel stations always seem to be coated with a fine film of diesel. Not only does it leave your hands malodorous, but also seems to cause skin irritations.

But, diesel stink aside, the Pugs are nicely suited to Australian roads. I think before I put a brochure link, feel free to download it, or print it.

If your grandma has impaired mobility, something like a Renault Scénic might be a better choice. It is quite easy to get in and out of, since its seats are a little higher than normal, and the cabin also has more height (entry and exit are slightly easier).

thanks chris, the diesel factor is nil, the merc she's had for nearly 20 years is diesel and we have adapted since our trucks, tractors and cars mostly run diesel.

i'll definately recommend a 307.

i heard the 406 diesel had only slight worse fuel economy than the prius i

[monaro]

hmmmm, 307 diesel has no automatic option.

so its either petrol 307 or jazz...?

[VQ]

The new Golf TDi which will come oput with the new mk 5 is a good one too, our Golf has a 1.9 and can get over 1000km tank on just city drving not long distance and long distance, well we ahven't tried but it wouldn't go as far as the 406 cos the 406 has a larger fuel tank.

But if she waited a bt she coudl get a Golf Tdi as they are also the higest performance version atm, and they do go,

Also, i ahven't noticed a film ont he diesel fuel pumps were we fil up and Mum still doesn't use a glove. They are also getting cleaner now, like 100 bits of particles or soemthing, but u could always make biodiesel like we do and it is completly clean.

[monaro]

they reckon that the jazz can get from sydney to melbourne for 40 bucks, thats not bad.

i'm thinking along the lines of jazz Vti now, with the 7-speed CVT/auto trans. she can drive it auto mode and if i need it (i prob wont but who knows) i can slip it into F1 mode and do the adelaidering.

[chris]

The new Golf will likely be premium priced when it arrives.

And apparently it is not selling very well at the moment.

Jazz is a good car, at a good price.

VQ: Yes, diesel is getting cleaner. BP I think is introducing the cleaner diesel in Sydney now. It'll be a godsend for those who want to privately import something like an E39 Alpina D10 Biturbo. (3.0 litre inline-6 biturbo diesel, with 500Nm, and a 257km/hr top speed).

Maybe we also might get in future the excellent Mercedes Benz E320 CDI. I think it comes now with 7G-Tronic transmission too, like the E500. :)

Speaking of German cars, I saw a nice Benz C-Class the other day.. It looked normal at a distance, but as it came closer, it was definately not normal. Didn't sound normal either.

It was a Brabus C V8 6.1 S! Powered by a huge 6.1 litre V8 belting out a reasonable 445hp, apparently enough to power it to 301km/hr! It's the first time I've seen a Brabus version of the new C-Class.

Very nice car. :)

[blackice111288]

Originally posted by Vqcapricedude
balckice: Thatz bullshit about a auto changin gera to save fuel, they do it cos itz set by the computer to change gears once u make maximum torque or watever because u don't need to rev it harder then that line cos it just uses more fuel, also auto's don't miss gears or accidentily redline while changing gears either, itz more accuracte and wat ever ur veiws are theya re wrong for the street machine community, just go down to ur local off street legal drags and u will find out tghat they mostly run Autos as it is quicker to change then human control, all top drag cars use it, but it may be manualized whcih means u can change gears ursself but without a clutch.

Sorry for the rambling on but I'm getting sick of u not understadning that a Auto is better for straight line drag racing.

um, ya cant say my views are wrong, cause it differs with you r driving style. i mean, yeah, if u suck at shifting, then a auto is the way to go. but ask any real racer, and they'll tell you manual.



balckice: Thatz bullshit about a auto changin gera to save fuel, they do it cos itz set by the computer to change gears once u make maximum torque or watever because u don't need to rev it harder then that line cos it just uses more fuel


which means exactly what i said. they shift to save fuel. they cant look at how long they need to hold a gear for a certain situation, like a person shifting himself can.

[MattB]

VQ, u just said its bs then u agreed to the same thing^_^

[VQ]

No they don't shift to save fuel, they shift because they can't any more power out of the enigine in that gear or speed.

[wello]

^_^ if your auto misses a gear or "accidently slips to red " its time to throw it over your shoulder the poor old girls rat shit .

I for one think that you should have to do your drinking test in a manual any boof head can drive a auto atleast now they mark your license A / M depending what gearbox the car use for your test has or has that change again ?

When I got mine it was go to the cop shop have a yak with the copper them drive around the block or take the copper to the shop to get his lunch ^_^

[blackice111288]

one of my friends just got his license, and he didn't say anything about having to specify what transmision he can drive (he can do both, but his 91 accord is auto). i still need to get my stupid permit, i turned 15 a few months back and my dad still hasn't taken me to get it. it sucks cause i love driving but i still have to wait a year from the date i go get my permit. i feel that you should be able to go to the DMV, when yuor 15, show the instuctor your driving skills, and and based on what you showed the instuctor what you should do, he should give you your liscence or learners license according to your driving skills. oh well, too bad it dont work that way.

[VQ]

I'm 15 and have been since july last year and Iw ant to drive but I need to wait till I'm 16 to get my Learners permit which is till I'm 18 when i can get my p's and drink etc legally.

But I can get my restricted boating liscense dso i can flyg the hovercraft I just ned to go dow tto Vicroads ont he bus cos my parents won't drive me or I dont'want to ask cos I want to do it myself, that simple, but they prolly need top be there for my id and stuff.

[blackice111288]

you have to wait till youre 16 to get your permit, and 18 to get your liscence? man, thats garbage!!!&( i guess i'll quit complaining for having to wait a year for my liscence.