One big step for man, one giant cost for America..

[chris]

I suppose you've all heard George W's latest grand plan?

(having not finished the Afghanistan and Iraq plans properly yet)

He reckons they will be establishing a permanent base on the moon, and, wait for it, will be sending people to Mars and destinations beyond.

This is surely one of the most grand election stunts I've heard of. If it happens, it will be something notable.

[Mickk]

Well, like a lot of people, I think the money they are planning to spend on the planned 'moonbase' could be much better put to use fixing stuff that is wrong in the USA and if the US is anything like Aussieland, there are a fair few things that could use the money.

[FeZ]

Just imagine what good you could do down on earth with that sort of money that they plan to blow out into space. I still think that flying to the moon, building stuff on the moon, civilisating (is that a word) moon is complete useless.

Yesterday night they showed some smartass scientist that was telling about how "mankind" could create an atmosphere on Mars by poluting the "air" up their and creating a hothouse effect. So in just 10.000 of years their could be an atmosphere on Mars so that our kids could life there without running around in spacesuits.

I think "mankind" should start worrying about populating other planets when they have found a way to travel outside our galaxy. But also for that the smartass scientist had a solution, a controllable black hole to create a wormhole to "warp" us to whereever we want. Just a slight problem a black hole so close to earth might have some unpredictable consequences. ^_^

Oh and forgot, the crazy scientist also said that man has to evolve to something new when his main goal is to travel the universe, something without legs (useless in a spaceship) but with longer arms. His name was not Dr. Strangelove by the way.

[p5.]

Originally posted by Mickk
Well, like a lot of people, I think the money they are planning to spend on the planned 'moonbase' could be much better put to use fixing stuff that is wrong in the USA and if the US is anything like Aussieland, there are a fair few things that could use the money.

Mickk, it may seem crazy to throw money into space, but even if there are *no* possible benefits, should it be the space program that should be identified as a place to reduce government spending? Consider that the Bush space plan is supposed to cost approximately 2 Billion per year (of money that is already earmarked for NASA--so note, this is NOT money being taken away from another program). The US military budget, by contrast, is 379 Billion per year. If people are really concerned about putting gov't money to better use, wouldn't it make sense to attack the giant expenditures first?

At least money given to NASA is going to scientists, not soldiers, and some beneficial research accrues.

Paul

[[RS]Alt]

This is surely one of the most grand election stunts I've heard of. If it happens, it will be something notable.

100% purely political..... It happens EVERY time that a Presidential election is on the horizon.

Just a slight problem a black hole so close to earth might have some unpredictable consequences.

Not if the "smartass" scientist is "sucked" thru it first! ^_^ ^_^

[Spiderman2]

In space noone can hear you laugh. The silly season has arrived early.

[Sepecat]

As [RS]Alt said, every president comes up with one of this huge Space Ambition Plans during Election Time.

This time you look at what Bush said yesterday, he said it is not a Race to Mars; he wants other countries to work together in this project as they do with the ISS.

One country looking at joining the US is India. I read a report today saying How India is looking to launch an unmanned mission to the moon in 20-08.

George`

[way124]

There is a good reason to spend more money in space. We can harvest minerals on the moon to replace depleting oil and gas resources. And when we are finally done with Earth killing it with all our pollution, we'll need to move some place else to pollute, like Mars. Watched Red Planet? It's actually based on the real sequence of steps today's scientists are thinking of implementing.

When Adrmial Cheng Ho sailed all the way to west Africa (and probably around the world), no one saw the benefits of funding these extravagant projects. It does make somewhat a big deal today. And it wasn't a few hundred years later that trade was exploited, ideas exchanged, resources shared that we see a booming age of technological and sociological advancement.

And when someone does see a profit in space exploration, you can bet that person will become a gazillionaire.

[[SK]Tammy]

Originally posted by chris
I suppose you've all heard George W's latest grand plan?

Ah, its not his plan, he is just doing the same as his father! :D

IMHO it is money well spent, although it should come from a healthy economy, not through loans.

Mankind needs to explore our solar system and beyond, in order to answer important questions and to eventually have a presence when our solar system is no more.

I know its a zillion years away, but science has to progress and it has to go forward now.

:love:

Tammy

[Spiderman2]

Way, How are we going to get those minerals and fuel resourses (if they exist) back to earth? I mean, could that ever be economical? Wouldn't we have to invest more energy than we get back? If there is no water then how do we transport enough to live and work with to the moon let alone Mars. Why not terraform Earth of we destroy our atmosphere rather than go elsewhere? Isn't all this just a pipe dream for bored teenagers and Trekkies?

[Sepecat]

Bush said by 20-15(I think) he wants a man on the moon. Now some I spoke too questions weather we really did go to the Moon as once believed….

Why is it that Bush is in a hurry or seems like to be, to send a Man to the Moon….

George`

[Sepecat]

Here is the Article about the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) wanting to play a role in the US space exploration.

India to play role in ambitious US space exploration
AFP
Thu Jan 15, 3:21 AM ET

BANGALORE, India (AFP) - India, which aims to send an unmanned mission to the moon by 2008, will take part in US plans to send humans back to the moon and eventually to Mars, the Indian space agency chief said.

President George W. Bush unveiled plans Wednesday for a US return to the moon as early as 2015, saying a lunar base would be a launch pad for manned missions to Mars and "across our solar system."

"India will certainly participate in the US initiative because we don't want to lag behind in the exploration of space," Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) chairman Madhavan Nair told AFP on Thursday.

But he said the extent of India's role had still to be determined.

"We'll firm up our plans for space exploration after bilateral discussions with them," he said in the southern city of Bangalore where the space agency is based. "Our role will depend on the progress of the dialogue with the US."
I
ndian, US space agency and other officials would discuss areas of cooperation at a workshop in Bangalore June 24-27 that would focus on "peaceful exploration of space," he said.
Ties between India and the United States, on opposite sides of the fence during the Cold War, have warmed dramatically in the past few years.

Earlier this week, the Bush administration announced the United States and India would step up talks on missile defence and civilian nuclear energy cooperation as well as civilian space programme contacts.

Bush said the US space plans were a "vision, not a race" and invited other nations "to join us on this journey in the spirit of cooperation."

"This is a positive move and we're happy to find a number of common themes in the space plans of ISRO and NASA (news - web sites) for the next 10 years," Nair said, adding India had "full visibility of the US initiative for space exploration."

Nair said the groundwork for greater Indian-US space cooperation was laid during Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee (news - web sites)'s US trip last year.

Last September, India's cabinet approved plans to send an unmanned mission to the moon by 2008 to probe the lunar surface. The mission, called Chandrayan-I, will cost 3.86 billion rupees (83 million dollars), and is expected to pave the way for further planetary explorations by India.

Critics have said cash-strapped India should not undertake a lunar mission but restrict its space programmes to satellite launches and use its funds for social welfare.

[Baritone Black]

I think it's just more politically motivated nonsense in order to look good for the upcoming election. I haven't yet heard a grand plan for a new reusable orbiter, never mind that the only current way to the ISS is by Soyuz.

Much like when his father made the same proposal, it will all be forgotten when the cost is seriously considered.

[FeZ]

Originally posted by nfs350r
Bush said by 20-15(I think) he wants a man on the moon. Now some I spoke too questions weather we really did go to the Moon as once believed….

Why is it that Bush is in a hurry or seems like to be, to send a Man to the Moon….


There are 2 scenarios.

1. He does not know that they already landed on the moon

or

2. He does know that it was all staged in Hollywood.



I still belive that Louis Armstrong never set foot on the moon :D :D :D :D :D

[Spiderman2]

Originally posted by FeZ
There are 2 scenarios.

1. He does not know that they already landed on the moon

or

2. He does know that it was all staged in Hollywood.



I still belive that Louis Armstrong never set foot on the moon :D :D :D :D :D

3. He wants to bring the American way of life to the people of the Moon.

4. Someone told him Osama is hiding on the moon.

[Myshkin]

Lance Armstrong set foot on the moon? Is there anything that guy can't do?

[Moe Faster]

The future of humanity is space exploration . . . no 2 ways about it . . . if we can see the need, we're gonna find a way to do it. The engineering challenge is what some people live for. :D

But, I think we could be more effective if we commercialize our approach to funding. Let's face it, we humans can find entertainment value in just about anything. &(

Soooo, let's have some fun . . . Space is the place to race . . . can't you just see it now !! A Porsche with Latteral Thrusters, Turbo Boosters, rocket fuel and all in Zero Gravity !! WAAAHHHOOOOOO !!!! -^ ^_^

8)~

[Ayce]

Originally posted by Myshkin
Lance Armstrong set foot on the moon? Is there anything that guy can't do?

Well no, Louis never went, and neither did Lance :D
One is a famous black jazz/blues trumpeter/singer, the other is a WWE "superstar" (and a Canadian btw). It was Neil Armstrong that went. As far as going to the moon goes, been there, done that, didn't even get a t-shirt^_^ . I can picture the conversation between C.Columbus and the spanish royalty....."What do you want to go there for, there's nothing out there beyond the ocean?!" :nono: :D

[Spiderman2]

I think Columbus was looking for a short cut to China and India, the East Indies. Hopefully we know where the moon is. I have no doubt we can plant a flag on Mars too. Humans are quite ingenius. If we invest enough we can do anything. But to make it worthwhile for all the investment there would have to be a return on that investment. That return can only practically be some form of new knowledge about the universe or spin offs from the development of new technology for space travel. I don't doubt space travel is possible because we have had it for decades. I do wonder about the reasoning behind these new announcements and some of the more fantastic ideas I have heard here. None of them new.

[Chaul]

You know you can buy real estate on Mars..
http://www.marsshop.com/

[Ayce]

LMAO. ^_^ ^_^ , Anybody wanna buy some oceanfront property?:007:

[Volt !]

Personally i find "Space Tourism' very stupid.
why would anyone want to pay a million dollars just to be tucked in a pressurised suit which weighs more than the man himself,get stuck in a cramped spaceship with only 2-3 co passengers , eat food out of tubes and miss the beautiful chicks on earth?

[Spiderman2]

I like to view the stars
from my little house on mars
it really was a brilliant deal
no really, quite a bloody steal
i don't miss earth and all that lot
i just wonder round my little plot
it's only that these little green men
are sending me round the flipping bend
they laugh at me, my wife and daughter
cause we have no bloody water
But we don't need it for you see
we do fine drinking tea made from pee.

[Spiderman2]

I sent a message to the folks back home
for some succulent pork off the bone
some sausage and mash
and a little bag a of hash
a beer or two and maybe some stew
i really do think we're due
some decent grub and entertainment
to save me from this self abasement
but all i got back from them
was the sound of chuckling, like a hen

Bastards.

[Wazza]

Why would it take so many years again to send someone to the moon?

In the sixties, it was only a few short years between space travel, and a full landing, and then a take-off. All of which happened faultlessly on a first attempt, where today many simpler space trips end up in trouble... I just find that so strange..

If anyone can find me what movie set they filmed the landing on.. I'll be happy. :)

[DC_Targa]

If the government were to take the existing money being wasted on projects that are doomed to failure and are of no benefit to humanity, then divert it to those projects that foster public support, would that be good or bad?

Most people don't have a clue regarding the developments that NASA funded that translated into products they take for granted every day now. OMG!!! I'm using a computer to type this that is orders of magnitude better than what was used to send a man to the moon. Wonder if there is a correlation here?????????

When a company sends work over seas, so goes money. When a government spends the money "at home", the money goes into the pockets of both the people and companies in that country. Both pay taxes ;) Both can now afford to buy new computers, TV's and perhaps even houses.

Most people have difficulty understanding global economics because they erroneously think they are similar to personal economics................

A little clue... When you spend too much, just print more money ^_^

[KyzrSoze]

No value to space travel?

I agree with all here who have disagreed with that idea.

Let's remember that when scientists first began studying...oh...electrons for instance, there were no pratical applications that anyone could conceive of. Im sure that there were plenty of people who thought that such work was useless and a waste of money. I guess they were right though, nothing much ever came of it ;).

The race for discovery - that is why we should do it.

[Commander]

There is also some rule where no nation can own any piece of any other planet or natural satellite in our solar system. That Mars Real Estate thing is weird, cause a loophole was found somewhere in that nothing was said about individuals owning it or something, but I think that whole rip-off scheme has been sorted out now.

Space exploration is probably the wisest thing for a healthy economy to spend money on, imo. The technology that emerges from all the research is simply astonishing, as others have pointed out, and the knowledge gained is priceless.

I think it is safe to say nothing is living on the moon or Mars, but the rover is now on Mars to make damn sure. It would be a real crime to go and terraform Mars if there is some sort of life there, heh. =[

Cool note, my uncle was the supervising welder on the Apollo 11 rocket. :cool:

[FIATLOVE]

Most people have difficulty understanding global economics because they erroneously think they are similar to personal economics................
A little clue... When you spend too much, just print more money

;)

Ecological footprint;
The Ecological Footprint (EF) is a measure of the consumption of renewable natural resources by a human population. A country's EF is the total area of productive land or sea required to produce all the crops, meat, seafood, wood and fibre it consumes, to sustain its energy consumption and to give space for its infrastructure. The EF can be compared with the biologically productive capacity of the land and sea available to that country’s population.
To calculate the number of hectares available per capita, one adds up the biologically productive land per capita world-wide of arable land, pasture, forest, built-up land and sea space, excluding room for the 30 million fellow species with whom humanity shares this planet. At least 12 percent of the ecological capacity, representing all ecosystem types, should be preserved for biodiversity protection. Accepting 12 percent as the magic number for biodiversity preservation, one can calculate that from the approximately 2 hectares per capita of biologically productive area that exists on our planet, only 1.7 hectares per capita are available for human use.

USA= 9.7
Norway= 7.92
UK= 5.35
Germany= 4.71
New Zealand= 8.68
Canada= 8.84
Australia= 7.58
China= 1.54
Iraq= 1.38
http://www.globalis.no/indicator.cfm?IndicatorID=13&lang=en

So, back to mars-project, how much will the mars-trip help to get EF back in balance?

Or, I guess I'm totally far off topic here..

:look:



:Peace:

Mads

[FIATLOVE]

Itar-Tass news;

Russia also wants to join the party
Source is Energia Rocket and space coorporation http://www.energia.ru/english/

Here we go again :rolleyes:

[Myshkin]

Hey Wazza, look up the difference in budgets (not directly but in present-day dollars), the actual time frame (not this "few short years"), the errors that were made, the accidents that happened, the one-step-at-a-time process, the trouble they have today as a percentage of total trips and compare it to what you find, and consider for a moment that, presently, we have no spacecraft designed for the trip to the moon. You think they're going to use the same vehicle as before?

Maybe that will clear things up for you.

;)

[Moe Faster]

Curiosity and space exploration are part of the human condition. We could no more remove ourselves from it than we could stop flying flying around on tin wings.

Yes, there are a LOT of thing wrong on this planet that need fixing, and we're going to have to fix them . . . WHILE we're exploring our solar system and beyond. We will also be exploring the seas, the rain forests, the galciers, the tall places and the low places, the insides and the outsides the planet.

And, we find the human condition in all of these places because . . . that is what we humans do.

8)~

[Spiderman2]

Nothing wrong with a bit of exploration. It's buggering it up and ownership that some people object to.

[Wazza]

Originally posted by Myshkin
Hey Wazza, look up the difference in budgets (not directly but in present-day dollars), the actual time frame (not this "few short years"), the errors that were made, the accidents that happened, the one-step-at-a-time process, the trouble they have today as a percentage of total trips and compare it to what you find, and consider for a moment that, presently, we have no spacecraft designed for the trip to the moon. You think they're going to use the same vehicle as before?

Maybe that will clear things up for you.

;)

hehe,

well I know back in the days, they used a vast amount of money, in the goal of becoming the first nation to step on the moon, after losing the race to the Russians for the first person into space.

Guess I've just been brain-washed by tv programs, showing the negative side of space travel.. All the flaws etc.
Of course, I haven't fully studied the missions before, but only hear of a few, so maybe I should watch what I say sometimes without full knowledge. I do know however, the Saturn V was a truly great large powerful rocket.. certainly capable of propelling Apollo missions into the depths of space! :)

So 1969.. Apollo 11...
Does that mean there were 10 failed missions earlier on?
A bit before my time.
All I heard about was one mission, there was too much oxygen inside the capsule, and everything blew sadly.

There's probably already secret developments underway within NASA. Keeping away from the public eye, and other competition from friendly nations, such as Russia and China.

Just what is the need to send someone back to the moon in little over 10 years?
Why not send a robot again, collect some lunar samples, and focus on exploring further out to Mars and beyond.

Good luck for future space travel.... I beleive it all now, just a bit sceptical of some of the 60's missions.
:Peace:

[Ayce]

The first 10 Apollo missions were not failures(well except Apollo 1 that blew up during live engine testing). 2,3,4,5,& 6 were tests only. If memory serves, Apollo 7 was an orbital test, 8 went into space and returned, 9 & 10 went to the moon and orbited but did not land. Might have to check NASA's history books to verify or refute my memory though.

Check here for more info.
http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/history/apollo/flight-summary.htm

[Myshkin]

I didn't mean to suggest there were failures on the trip that was actually supposed to go to the moon... but there were several failures in the space program from the beginning, not just from the time when JFK told them to do it.

Like Ayce points out, there were tests and steps beforehand, not like they just stuck a rocket on a pad and said "Let's go!" after a year or two. If you can accept that they could reach high orbit, it's not really a big leap of faith to believe that they blew some burners and went out to the moon.

Can I say I'm 100% certain that it happened? No. but I just say I believe they did because logic dictates they did. One point I brought up the last time we argued this was: the USSR was watching, you know. If it was fake they would have known it. You don't think they would say anything? You realize the on Jan 31, 1966 the USSR successfully landed a probe on the moon, and had a few lunar orbiters and at least one more lunar probe after that before 1969.

It would have been a PR victory to show the world that it didn't happen... but they knew it did. That's enough for me.

[FIATLOVE]

Question;
How come that the flag waves in the "wind" at the first moonlanding ????

Please tell me..

:D

[wello]

thats because it was a very windy day at the set opps I mean moon that day ^_^

[Commander]

It didn't wave in the wind, silly, it is held straigtht out on solid wire. Tie a flag to a hockey stick, and prop the flag up with a coat hanger. Then abrubtly stab the base of the hockey stick into the ground on a calm day. It vibrates, doesn't it??? :rolleyes:

[Ayce]

The idea that man never went to the moon is silly to me.:confused: . This is put forth by the same kind of ppl that say the holocaust never happened, and computers are the tools of the devil. They resist change and want to ignore history. That way they can stay tucked up in their warm beds and gloat over their "superior" thinking. Change is inevitable and history already happened, so keep an open mind.(also one of the devils tools^_^ ). They want to believe that humans are the only intelligent species in the universe. I imagine there were some who did not believe that Mr. Columbus ever got to "America" because they never saw him actually get there. Even if he did bring something wonderous back.(And that they were the only intelligent beings on the planet.)
:D Opps, Sry for the :rant: I'll get off the :soap: box now.

[meinherr]

As a former Member of the L5 Society , ( haven't paid my dues in 15 years ! lol ) I think Dubya has used Space Exploration as a Ruse to deflect criticism away from his inept handling of the US Economy . The so called proposal of a possible Moon Base , and the Mention of a Future Manned Mars Mission has made me cringe at the Thought of the Billions of Dollars it would cost to achieve them . Back in the Mid 1970's the L5 Society invisioned a Permanant Space Colony in a Stationary Orbit between the Earth and Moon at the Lagrange Point number Five . The Society's Goal was to have a Non Govermental Space Habitat Autonomous of any Control , in the effort to see if Humans could survive Long periods of time in Space. This undertaking was imagined to be funded by the Private Sector and developed by the Society's Scientific Members . Unfortunatly , their DREAM was somewhat unrealistic since at that time the Space program was controlled by the Goverments of the United States and the former Soviet Union . As of 2004 , it is now possible for something along those lines to actually happen . The Private Sector and not National Goverments , hold the key to the Future of Space Exploration . -^

[AccadaccA]

Originally posted by [SS]Ayce
The idea that man never went to the moon is silly to me.:confused: . This is put forth by the same kind of ppl that say the holocaust never happened, and computers are the tools of the devil. They resist change and want to ignore history. That way they can stay tucked up in their warm beds and gloat over their "superior" thinking. Change is inevitable and history already happened, so keep an open mind.(also one of the devils tools^_^ ).
G'day Ayce and all.
I guess I'm one of those people who don't believe in anything just because I don't believe in the so called moon landing. :why: I must also think that this computer is the "devil's tool" just because you believe that goes hand in hand with anyone doubting a moon landing. :rolleyes: Gawd you really must have put a lot of thought into putting all those eggs in the same basket.

It's one incident, mate. Nobody is doubting the recorded history of mankind, nobody is resisting change just because we don't believe in the alleged moon landing.
To be open minded is one thing but to be totally niave is another.
My disbelief in the alleged moon landing is not unlike the thousands of others who also disbelieve it. We're not saying "it didn't happen because we weren't there". We've seen too much evidence against it to believe the BS excuses they gave for very questionable photographs and video footage.

To be honest, the very first thing I thought of when I heard about this Mars crap on the news was that Bush wants to create an excuse for over expenditure. I think that the past moon projects were pretty much the same. It's the greatest lie created because who can check up on it? The IRS? ^_^

It also makes a good diversion from the lack of nukes etc. found in Afganistan.
Bush jnr has been exactly like his father in the only two major decisions he has made in office. The war was scheduled before he was even sworn in.

Hmm, perhaps NASA really stands for Non-tracable American Secret Account. If I was a U.S. citizen I would want more proof than a bunch of contradictory photos and short ,fuzzy, video.

I hope he keeps the recipts for this project.
:Peace:


BTW Volt ! : You forgot to mention peeing & pooping in your space suit for the entire "space" journey. There's no back door in those silver foil long-johns. :")

[Volt !]

Hehe , right on Acca. I was gonna write that , but couldnt find the exact words to describe it :D

[Commander]

I know it's kinda gross, but space suits have built-in shitters.

I am quite confident the Apollo 11 went to the moon, unless my uncle was building a cardboard rocket that was only for show, and went straight to the scrapyard after some incredible hollywood effects that somehow existed back then, yet no longer do today. I tend to trust my family members over skeptics.

Here's something not known by many, but the original Apollo 13 was turfed halfway through construction, then a new one was started with the same name at a later date (which I suppose should technically be Apollo 14, but it wasn't). Weird eh?

[Myshkin]

Teej, I think the suggestion is that the rockets may have gone into orbit (kind of hard to fake a launch from the Cape when millions can see it with their bare eyes) but that they did not travel out to the moon. The skeptics say that only a few hundred people at most knew that it didn't happen... even people in the control room thought they were reading real numbers, when in fact they were reading numbers from a probe that had been "lost" earlier.

The whole "flapping flag" argument is the least persuasive thing I've seen. You can see the astronaut moving the post trying to plant it, so you don't see it flapping like in the wind, you see it flapping like it had a wire along the top and someone was twisting the post.

The astronauts were not in their space suits for the whole flight, Acca, besides the fact that, as Teej pointed out, they were tubed up for such needs. Only for the launch and lunar landing parts.

We've had this argument before and I've seen the evidence and arguments against it, and the evidence and arguments refuting the skeptics... but the fact that the Russians sent a lunar probe that brought back samples of the lunar soil, and that soil matches what Apollo brought back, pretty much closes the argument for me. Independent verification by a hostile third party heh ;) So I won't even bother to continue this argument again :)

:Peace:

[Spiderman2]

The independent third party agrument is a good one Mysh, but flawed also. What if both did a deal to fool the world?

Da, da, we confirm yours if you confirm ours, da?

OK dude, it's a deal. And we go on calling you Socialists?

Da. And we call you Capitalist pigs?

OK.

Dobra. Have a good day.

-----------
Could be plausible.

[chris]

As much as the anti-capitalists might love that situation, I find that very improbable.. ;)

The Soviets would dearly have loved to discredit the American space program.

I can hardly believe that this topic is still going.

[Spiderman2]

Your probably right Chris. But until some forth party goes and recovers that damn springy flag then this mad argument will continue. Teehee ;)

edit: Maybe hubble can find the flag... Woohooo!

[Baritone Black]

Because this program is eating up the resources, Hubble will no longe rbe maintained.

[Spiderman2]

What! Are they crazy? How are they going to find the flag then? Oh, I get it. Scrap hubble... can't find flag... no proof either way. Clever! Damn clever.

[chris]

Hubble isn't gone yet, it's still up there, taking photos I think.

But I heard that they might bring Hubble back to earth. I can't imagine them just destroying such a valuable piece of machinery by burning it up in the atmosphere (like MIR, which I saw on its final descent).

[FIATLOVE]

No doubt they was there, that date. Samples of luna-soil was brought back home.

But, does the film have to be 100% real?
It was a dogbattle of a challenge to reach first to the moon, and the need of a confirmation was urgent.

[Spiderman2]

Talking of conspiracies; did you all know that the pyramids are actually proof of ancient colonization by cats? Below the pyramids is a gigantic cats head. The pyramids are only the ears, the only visible sign left. They (the cats) buried the evidence thousands of years ago and founded the acient Egyptian dynasties. There are clues everywhere but not many people seem to have noticed. We have been their servants ever since. They usually only pick the more stupid of us humans to be their slaves. Forget about Lizards, think cats.

edit: Not convinced? What about the sphinx? Cat body, human head. A devious ploy to divert attention; the cats head was removed and replaced with a human one much later to deflect suspicion. Nobody has bothered to dig DOWN. Why? Because they use mind control. We crawl around inside the ears like earwigs in little tunnels. Cats are everywhere, EVEN IN AUSTRALIA. One or two sneaked in and bingo, they now rule the place through human proxies. How long? Not long. Wake up and smell the cat litter...

edit2: Still not convinced? Don't CATegorize me as mad quite yet. CATalogue; noun: a book or pamphlet containing an enumeration of things; noun: a complete list of things; usually arranged systematically. In the old days when humans were punished they condemned us to the CAT of NINE tails (ninth planet? Possible clue to origin of the beasts) . I could go on and on.

[Myshkin]

^_^ No sane cat owner would doubt you, mate

[Ayce]

Originally posted by Myshkin
^_^ No sane cat owner would doubt you, mate


Is there one??:beer:

[Justin Martin]

Originally posted by Myshkin
^_^ No sane cat owner would doubt you, mate

And after meeting your cat, I sure don't doubt him. :yikes: He's (she?) defiently plotting something. ;)

[Myshkin]

Heh :eek: for those that didn't see it last time:

Pyscho-kitty (http://www.totalnfs.net/mysh/badcat.mpg)

[AccadaccA]

The flag is only one of several issues suss with the alleged "moon landing". Taking samples from the moon does not mean a human needs to land and walk it's surface armed with a plastic spade and bucket.
I'm not disputing that either U.S or U.S.S.R sent unmanned rockets to the moon with probes to collect samples and I would like to believe that "walking on the moon" is more than just a Police song. However there is just too much evidence against it.
It's an opinion, not an arguement. :Peace:

Mysh: Please enlighten us as to when the astronaughts weren't in their space suits. As Teej indicated, the suits were designed to be worn throughout the entire trip.

Hmm, :idea: maybe it wasn't the flag flapping in the breeze after all. Perhaps it was a space suit pegged to a Hills hoist (clothes line). :D

[wello]

Originally posted by AccadaccA

Hmm, :idea: maybe it wasn't the flag flapping in the breeze after all. Perhaps it was a space suit pegged to a Hills hoist (clothes line). :D

:haha:


:yikes:it might of been the man in the moons kids playing on the hills hoist ^_^

^_^sneaky buggers those bloody cats :catroll:explains alot &(^_^

[FIATLOVE]

I'm impressed


^_^

[Myshkin]

Errr Acca, let me get this straight. You think they were wearing that heavy, pressurized, relatively inflexible lunar space suit the entire time from launch until return? Even while inside the pressurized and heated main module? If you think that, I can see why you might be incredulous... They were equipped so because they could be out on the lunar surface for long periods of time.

"Project Apollo
Because Apollo astronauts had to walk on the moon as well as fly in space, a single spacesuit was developed that had add-ons for moonwalking. The basic Apollo spacesuit, which was worn during liftoff, was the backup suit needed in case cabin pressure failed. "

http://science.howstuffworks.com/space-suit4.htm

[Myshkin]

P.S. This is a picture of Buzz Aldrin in the lunar module, supposedly on July 20, 1969. The day they landed on the moon, allegedly. More proof! How can he be in space without a space suit! Case closed for Acca I guess. The rest of us will go on in our naive belief that they actually made space vehicles that were pressurized and heated. I know it's a silly belief but there you go :rolleyes:

I guess those space shuttle flights were fake too. Haven't you seen the pictures of people gliding around in no more than jumpsuits?

http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/apollo11/buzz.jpg

[AccadaccA]

That photo is obviously fake, I mean where's Homer, the floating potato chips and the ants?

:auswink:


edit:

BTW, he looks nothing like Buzz Lightyear.

[Spiderman2]

Buzz Lightyear? Sorry, I can't believe that. Obviously they couldn't even be bothered to make up realistic names. Do they think we are stupid?

[AccadaccA]

Yeah I don't know who Neil and Aldrin are supposed to be either, :why: but we all know it was Louis Armstrong and Buzz Lightyear who sang "walking on the moon". Maybe their manager was named Neil Aldrin? Hmm, sound like he could be a space cadet.


http://www.redhotjazz.com/louis3.gif http://adisney.go.com/disneyvideos/animatedfilms/buzzlightyear/cast/images/buzz_main.gif

[Spiderman2]

Oh come on Acca! Neil is a perfectly acceptable name. Reminds me of that old Thatcher, Neil Kinnock joke. Kinnock goes to downing street and is shown into Thatchers office. "Neil"! Exclaims Thatcher. Kinnock gets down on his knees... Boom boom!

[AccadaccA]

heh. Don't let my mate wello hear (read) that one.

[Myshkin]

^_^

[VQ]

Well the space ship that blew up in fe urary last year was real wasn't it? I mean it had to go out o th arths atmosphere to be able to go back in.

I saw a documentary ont he history of that one and they got more money because the military could use it as well which changed the original design which was a lot better. I hope when they make another one that it is similart tot he riginal design instead of the military wide one.

I think it is a good idea to go to the moon and other places, but if u have seen the Time Machine (new one) you would find that they go a bit to far and blow up the moon.

[Commander]

Kevin Bacon went to the moon.

[Spiderman2]

Originally posted by Vqcapricedude

I think it is a good idea to go to the moon and other places, but if u have seen the Time Machine (new one) you would find that they go a bit to far and blow up the moon.

Is it possible to do that? I didn't know it was inflatable. :eek:

[Commander]

Originally posted by Spiderman2
Is it possible to do that? I didn't know it was inflatable. :eek:

ROTFLMBO!! ^_^ ^_^

[AccadaccA]

Originally posted by Spiderman2
Is it possible to do that? I didn't know it was inflatable. :eek: Use a foot pump or you may burn your lips. :D

[Commander]

Ah yes, like the terrorist who tried to blow up the bus... he burned his lips on the exhaust pipe! :D

[AccadaccA]

heh, when I first heard that (years ago) it was an Irish terrorist. But at least you typed it in green.

[Spiderman2]

The good old IRA. Anyway, I have this real sore arm, something to do with a radial nerv. So I will have to check out for a while. See you laters. I'll be back one of these days so don't laugh quite yet. Arrrrgdios for now.

rob

edit: one more edit. you know me by now. ;) To the yanks. I loves ya. That is from the heart. Over the years I have grown to love you all. The good, the bad and the ugly. But... ;) there is always a but... :)

[Myshkin]

:wave: @ Spidey, hope your arm gets better, mate.

[Spiderman2]

cheers mate. love ya dude. be happy. :beer:

[Moe Faster]

Bloody martians got another one.

8)~

[AccadaccA]

Ha, and all your mother said was "it'll make you go blind". Now look atcha, blind with a "real sore arm". :D heh
Take it easy Spidie, try not to spin too many webs.

Catch ya when the mud dries.
let's hope it rains forever

[FeZ]

Just heard that the martians have cut the antenna on the US Mars robot Spirit :D

First they destroyed the European robot, now the US Spirit one, lets see what they will do to the next US one that may land soon
:D

What a waste of money, think of all the beer one could buy :beer:

[AccadaccA]

Originally posted by FeZ
What a waste of money, think of all the beer one could buy :beer: ** sniff sniff sniff ** Beer? :hat: heh

Martians cut the antenna? &( Funny, I heard the batteries fell out of it. :")

[Baritone Black]

And it was going so well.
The rover still must have power, as they have received the indicator signal, so no, the batteries haven't fallen out.

[Chaul]

But it's not lost yet.. It was sending data in - slowly.

SPIRIT UPDATE: - Jan 23, 2004, 6:30 am PST
The flight team for NASA's Spirit received data from the rover in a communication session that began at 13:26 Universal Time (5:26 a.m. PST) and lasted 20 minutes at a data rate of 120 bits per second. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html

[FeZ]

If it is still moving the Martians taking a joyride on it :)

[AccadaccA]

Baritone Black : lol, I was just kidding with FeZ, mate.Originally posted by FeZ
If it is still moving the Martians taking a joyride on it :) Doubtful, not with the price of fuel these days. :rolleyez:

They have us Aussies tracking it at the moment (true story) but channel 10 was showing previews of Elle MacPherson's new lingerie collection :cool: :shades: and someone changed the channel. :p

[FeZ]

Doubtful, not with the price of fuel these days.

Oh come on I am sure there is alot of oil on mars, or did you really buy that story about "looking for water" :D

Elle MacWho ? Lingerwhat ?

[AccadaccA]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1019884.htm
Canberra to help NASA space probe's Mars touchdown
Scientists and technicians at Canberra's Deep Space Communication Complex (DSCC) are anxiously waiting for the NASA space probe Spirit to touch down on Mars today.

It is due to land at 3:35pm AEST this afternoon, with the DSCC providing the communications link between NASA and the space probe.

The probe was launched from the Kennedy Space Centre in Florida in the US seven-months-ago, and has been travelling toward the red planet at 20,000 kilometres an hour.

If successful, it will be the fourth probe to land safely on the red planet.

DSCC spokesperson Glen Nagle says the complex has been preparing for the event for two years.

"[There are] 150 people here on this site making sure that everything is working perfectly, all the antennas, our spacecraft communication gear and our link between ourselves and scientists anxiously waiting around the world," he said.

Mr Nagle says the mission is designed to find out more about the history of the red planet.

"The Mars exploration rover is really designed to look at the geological history of Mars, particularly look at its water history," he said.

"We know that Mars was a warm, wet planet billions of years ago at a similar time when Earth life first started here.

"So we're trying to understand that water history of that Planet and the consequences it may have had for life possibly starting up on Mars."

She'll be right mate, just leave it to us Aussies. :hat:-^ Within a week we'll have that little dune buggy delivering beers from the kitchen to the lounge. :cheers:

[AccadaccA]

Stop looking, I found it. :hat:

http://www.totalnfs.net/Accas/vb_probe.gif

[Commander]

I thought all the rovers sent to Mars was just a secret staging for an episode of Robot Wars.

[chris]

They've lost contact with the one up there for a while.

Something went wrong, and now it has sort of phoned home and is sending a load of useless information back.

Something has gone wrong with it.

I suppose it didn't help that the base-station in Canberra that was sending the information was hit by a severe thunderstorm during the time the information was being transmitted.

[AccadaccA]

Originally posted by chris
They've lost contact with the one up there for a while.

Something went wrong, and now it has sort of phoned home and is sending a load of useless information back.

Something has gone wrong with it... One of my stubbies fell over and spilt on the do-hickey... or should that be "doh-ickey"? :hat:

[Strobe]

I can understand how ppl may think that apollo 11 was faked. It was a sociological shock to the many ppl of the world that man finally set foot there after tens of thousands of years of dreaming and trying. But to think that the 5 following missions were faked does not make sense. If we "HAD" to fake one, why fake any more? We would have nothing to prove as we had already "been" there. The conspiracy theories regarding the lack of landing on the moon seem to have more problems than the proof they try to dispute.

Unrelated but one thing that I find funny is that a new car has more computer processing power than what was in apollo 11.

IMO, the path to moon and Mars will get derailed. Not because we can't go but the fact that it will cost so much. We don't have much to gain going back to the moon and there are still techinical issues with going and staying on Mars. Does anybody remember the Superconducting Super Collider Project? Billions $$$ wasted for a hole in the ground; stopped because it was costing too much. I think the same will happen to this "vision". As a trekker, I would like to see someone living on the moon or mars but don't think this is the right time to start trying. Lets finish the ISS first!