Here following my proposal for an offline challenge:
Race 1 - The City 1 - A190 TWIN
Race 2 - Australia 3 - SLK 32 AMG
Race 3 - Mexico 9 - ML 55 AMG
Race 4 - Hockenheimring - W 154
Race 5 - Test Center 1 - G 55 AMG
Race 6 - Test Center 10 - CLK DTM 2000
Race 7 - Nevada 1 - SL 73 AMG
Race 8 - Alps 1 - SL 280 'Pagode'
Race 9 - Japan 6 - S400 CDI
I would also add the following rules:
- 100% sim, no driving aids (ABS allowed)
- 5 opponents set as Dynamic
- 3 laps per race
- Create a real championship if possible (editing an existing one is possible when you're driver No.1)
We should then take a screenshot of the results at race end (the race table with all racers' results) and one from the screen where you also see the % sliders, to evaluate the whole performance.
The winner is the one who gets the minimum total "handicap" calculated as sum of the following value for all the 8 races:
(Total time in seconds) * 600 / (Sum of all sliders %).
In this way we can evaluate also the clean driving.
Who wants to join the contest? :cool:
FeZ
11-14-2003, 11:44 PM
Hey great idea -^
But aren't there too many fast cars, how about a CDI and a heavy S-Class ??? Or at least 1 heavy S-Class CDI :)
EDIT: Just seen that you need the "all" profile to be able to select the Testtrack 1 as a singlerace.
EDIT2: Just tried the first one, City with the Twin. Check out my results here City1-TWIN (http://mitglied.lycos.de/xrfez/Competition/City1-TWIN.zip) ABS is on, as I am used to it and dont want to start learning again with ABS off :)
My first run was a bit conventional with 5:14.70 also a bit rough ride with stats of 513 resulting in a 6:08.07.
Did some practice, with some more drifting for better stats and came up with 4:58.57 and stats of 527 (lost 5% for an unnecesary short and a slight hit.). This equals a 5:39.93
EDIT3: Some flaws with the statistics. If you run a race/car for the first time you will get about 35% experience. If you have a profile were you played that combo before the expiereince will just be about 10%. Usually all the other scores will be up in such a scenario but cannot compensate for the less experience.
DC_Tox
11-15-2003, 04:32 AM
Originally posted by FeZ
How about a CDI and a heavy S-Class ??? Or at least 1 heavy S-Class CDI :)
Done: I edited the first post and added Japan 6 on the S400 CDI ;)
You need the "all" profile to be able to select the Testtrack 1 as a singlerace.
Yes, but it's the only way to have a real off-road race for the G-class. If it's not a problem I'd leave it, otherwise we have to remove the race completely, no off-road :(
Some flaws with the statistics. If you run a race/car for the first time you will get about 35% experience. If you have a profile were you played that combo before the expiereince will just be about 10%.
So we have to run each combo at least twice ;)
I'm sure that nobody will cheat on this competition, it's just for fun after all :)
FeZ
11-15-2003, 05:29 AM
Originally posted by DC_Tox
Done: I edited the first post and added Japan 6 on the S400 CDI ;)
I like that -^
Yes, but it's the only way to have a real off-road race for the G-class. If it's not a problem I'd leave it, otherwise we have to remove the race completely, no off-road :(
That would be a shame, Offroading is good fun and that track is great.
So we have to run each combo at least twice ;)
I'm sure that nobody will cheat on this competition, it's just for fun after all :)
Maybe better is if we all use your "all-Player1" profile. This would make it more fair for everybody ? Dunno what levels of experience one can expect if you have a profile and have run the same track 10 times before ? 1%.
With the clean profile you can expect 30-40 %
DC_Geezr
11-15-2003, 06:15 AM
Ack,I don't like all these %$^%#@! profiles floating around.=[ Why not do one with our own profiles,and get Tom to push for a patch to open up the locked cars/tracks??
:idea:
Ricamundo:beer:
DC_Tox
11-15-2003, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by FeZ
Maybe better is if we all use your "all-Player1" profile. This would make it more fair for everybody ? Dunno what levels of experience one can expect if you have a profile and have run the same track 10 times before ? 1%.
With the clean profile you can expect 30-40 %
The "all" profile is needed for Test Track 1 anyway, if we don't want to use it we have to remove that race.
But, regarding experience it seems to be the same if you race the same combo from 2 to any number of times.
In fact, for City1 with 3 Laps it's always around 13%, probably it's only related to the distance of the race, and there seems to be a +20-25% bonus only the first time.
You need anyway more than one run to improve your times, don't you? :D
DC_Tox
11-15-2003, 06:24 AM
Originally posted by DC_Geezr
Ack,I don't like all these %$^%#@! profiles floating around.=[ Why not do one with our own profiles
As I said, just use your profile and skip Race 5 on the (locked) off-road Test Track1 ;) We can do without it, if it's a problem for anyone.
BTW, I agree that we should get all cars and all tracks when the career is completed :rolleyes:
Finally, I just wanted to mention that the "all" profile is not an hack, it doesn't improve any car performance. It's just unlocking what should already be unlocked, since I completed my career!
PS: This game rocks! :HB:
DC_Geezr
11-15-2003, 06:38 AM
Originally posted by DC_Tox
As I said, just use your profile and skip Race 5 on the (locked) off-road Test Track1 ;) We can do without it, if it's a problem for anyone.
BTW, I agree that we should get all cars and all tracks when the career is completed :rolleyes:
Finally, I just wanted to mention that the "all" profile is not an hack, it doesn't improve any car performance. It's just unlocking what should already be unlocked, since I completed my career!
PS: This game rocks! :HB:
Cor I never said it was a hack,but If we bend over backwards just to play all the cars/tracks,The Devs won't bother to fix it properly,IMHO.
GeriatRIC:beer:
DC_Tox
11-15-2003, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by FeZ
Did some practice, with some more drifting for better stats and came up with 4:58.57 and stats of 527 (lost 5% for an unnecesary short and a slight hit.). This equals a 5:39.93
This is my first attempt (after the first run with 37% experience that I discarded):
[...pictures removed...]
It's 5:12.65 * 600 / 513 ==> 6:05.67
Still a bit slow....but clean! ^_^
FeZ
11-15-2003, 07:08 AM
Hehe I gonna try that again now, you think that experience should be about 13% and only relate to the distance ?
DC_Tox
11-15-2003, 07:34 AM
I did several other runs and experience is always in the 13-15% range now for race 1. Probably it depends also on some driving factor, but only slightly.
This is my current best for Race1 - City 1 on A190 Twin:
[...pictures removed....]
That means an equivalent 5:00.23 * 600 / 515 = 5:49.78
______________________________
Meanwhile I started also Race2 - Australia 3 on SLK 32 AMG:
[...pictures removed...]
The equivalent time is 5:15.65 * 600 / 508 = 6:12.81
NOTE : I'm getting a 90% performance on the last race...probably because I haven't done the best lap (Luther did it)...cool to have also this in the performance account -^
FeZ
11-15-2003, 08:08 AM
Ok so here is my best for City. Dont think I can do 3 such laps again on a cleaner run (all 1:36 even the 1st lap)
Seems very easy to get all 100% here, even with driving errors and 5% damage at the end, full scores ? Maybe because I did 2 "perfect drifts" when exiting the long tunnel. Maybe not the fastest way, but fun fun fun -^
Oh man that was hard, had to try several times to get a clean & fast run. Trick is to not damage your car at all, and whatever you do dont jump the giant jump, slow down or you kill the stats even if you "stand" the jump. :)
Oh that was a very conservative run, no errors but very slow, every lap about 5 seconds slower than a trashing-shortening run would be. This must do for now.
don't understand race 2,, came 2nd,, and got 0% for skill^_^ ,,,on secound thoughts,, thats about right:D
DC_Tox
11-15-2003, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by DCsplash
don't understand race 2,, came 2nd,, and got 0% for skill
Skill is decreased if you crash, I believe (if you get driving errors).
That's also why I got only 75% on skill in the race at Mexico9....seems like the ML55 didn't like my high jumping on the fourth bridge ^_^
DCsplash
11-16-2003, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by DC_Tox
(if you get driving errors).
Yes,,, i get plenty of those:D ,,, what was really funny,, when i was doing the Aus 3 in the SLK,,, on the track where you turn left just after the start/finish line,, theres a bit with no barrior,,, 3 of the AI's drove straight of the little cliff,,, and i didn't even touch them,, (honest guv),, i was watching them in the mirror,,, i laughed so much i had to press the pause button^_^
Hypothraxer
11-16-2003, 03:48 AM
I think it would be nice if someone made a homepage out of this, where you can send in your results. Would be a bit of work though :)
Regards
Hypothraxer
DC_Tox
11-16-2003, 07:12 AM
We have some space at the Demolition Crew's website, but I need to figure out how to make a self-service stats database, I just won't have time/availability enough to quickly update the results for all the racers/tracks.
Something where you can login, select the race, post your time and % and the final "equivalent" time (maybe automatically calculated).
If someone knows how to do it, the web server supports MySQL for the database, I believe. I can upload the code and make it working, but to develop it I have still to learn some things that I've never used (SQL usage in HTML pages).
Dunno if it's worth the effort, we're just 3 now and we still wait for the multiplayer with its eventual stats system...
Maybe a sticky thread with only the latest screenshots and results is enough ;)
DC_Geezr
11-16-2003, 07:57 AM
I guess I was spoiled by the PU stats.U just race and most of the time,if ur time was good enough,it showed up @ DR.Even a moron like me could understand the top 50.^_^ I wouldn't get to involved in trying to create stats,until we see what Synetic comes up with,IMHO.Just a gut feeling,but if U guys show TOO much creativity,they'll just leave it up to "The Community" to do all the work.
FeZ
11-16-2003, 09:15 AM
Ok I finished my 9 races (updated above post). Don't know how much time I will have the next 2 weeks, so this has to do :D
Race 1 - The City 1 - A190 TWIN 5:46.13
Race 2 - Australia 3 - SLK 32 AMG 5:57.13
Race 3 - Mexico 9 - ML 55 AMG 11:47.63
Race 4 - Hockenheimring - W 154 6:59.57
Race 5 - Test Center 1 - G 55 AMG 7:29.86
Race 6 - Test Center 10 - CLK DTM 2000 10:20.78
Race 7 - Nevada 1 - SL 73 AMG 8:17.25
Race 8 - Alps 1 - SL 280 'Pagode' 13:36.98
Race 9 - Japan 6 - S400 CDI 11:54.09
Total Time = 82:09.46
Even if I manage to improve some of the times, I don't think I go through all that trouble of taking pictues/uploading and posting here again :)
TeeKay
11-16-2003, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by DC_Tox
We have some space at the Demolition Crew's website, but I need to figure out how to make a self-service stats database, I just won't have time/availability enough to quickly update the results for all the racers/tracks.
Something where you can login, select the race, post your time and % and the final "equivalent" time (maybe automatically calculated).
If someone knows how to do it, the web server supports MySQL for the database, I believe. I can upload the code and make it working, but to develop it I have still to learn some things that I've never used (SQL usage in HTML pages).
Dunno if it's worth the effort, we're just 3 now and we still wait for the multiplayer with its eventual stats system...
Maybe a sticky thread with only the latest screenshots and results is enough ;)
Hi DC_Tox,
Actually im working something out, that is very similar to your descriptions above ;). I'm extending the Highscore-Compare-System, that already exists on my website.
Probably I will separate the wr-section of my website and make it a bit more "international" ;), meaning to translate it into English.
We could make a weekly tournament on world racing....
Greez,
TeeKay
DC_Geezr
11-16-2003, 12:32 PM
Welcome to the Racerplanet Forum for MBWR TK! Nice site btw.:beer:
DC_Tox
11-16-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by TeeKay
Actually im working something out, that is very similar to your descriptions above ;). I'm extending the Highscore-Compare-System, that already exists on my website.
Hi Tobias! Nice to see you here on Racerplanet, too ;)
It's great if you can make something like this on your website -^
I'm already using the track record database, it would be great if we can add a weekly tournament posting our results :) I was just thinking of something like your existing database for the tournaments, actually :D
I hope that at Synetics they're working on it, but until they release the multiplayer it's a good way to keep us busy :D
FeZ
11-16-2003, 03:04 PM
Hello Tobias,
Your database site is great.
But how about changing the rules a bit (allow ABS), so that I could also submit some times :D
TeeKay
11-16-2003, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by FeZ
Hello Tobias,
Your database site is great.
But how about changing the rules a bit (allow ABS), so that I could also submit some times :D
This option is already on my "to do list" ;)
But together with the option ABS I will add a filter, to see the track records driven without it....
DC_Tox
11-16-2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by FeZ
Ok I finished my 9 races
Race 1 - The City 1 - A190 TWIN 5:46.13
Race 2 - Australia 3 - SLK 32 AMG 5:57.13
Race 3 - Mexico 9 - ML 55 AMG 11:47.63
Race 4 - Hockenheimring - W 154 6:59.57
Race 5 - Test Center 1 - G 55 AMG 7:29.86
Race 6 - Test Center 10 - CLK DTM 2000 10:20.78
Race 7 - Nevada 1 - SL 73 AMG 8:17.25
Race 8 - Alps 1 - SL 280 'Pagode' 13:36.98
Race 9 - Japan 6 - S400 CDI 11:54.09
Total Time = 82:09.46
Here's my list:
Race 1 - The City 1 - A190 TWIN 5:49.78
Race 2 - Australia 3 - SLK 32 AMG 6:00.44
Race 3 - Mexico 9 - ML 55 AMG 12:17.36
Race 4 - Hockenheimring - W 154 7:11.98
Race 5 - Test Center 1 - G 55 AMG 7:36.53
Race 6 - Test Center 10 - CLK DTM 2000 10:33.55
Race 7 - Nevada 1 - SL 73 AMG 8:18.25
Race 8 - Alps 1 - SL 280 'Pagode' 13:54.69
Race 9 - Japan 6 - S400 CDI 12:09.59
Total time = 83:52.17
And here the screenshots:
http://www.geocities.com/toxi/pics4total/mbwr-challenge-1.txt
http://www.geocities.com/toxi/pics4total/mbwr-challenge-2.txt
http://www.geocities.com/toxi/pics4total/mbwr-challenge-3.txt
http://www.geocities.com/toxi/pics4total/mbwr-challenge-4.txt
http://www.geocities.com/toxi/pics4total/mbwr-challenge-5.txt
http://www.geocities.com/toxi/pics4total/mbwr-challenge-6.txt
http://www.geocities.com/toxi/pics4total/mbwr-challenge-7.txt
http://www.geocities.com/toxi/pics4total/mbwr-challenge-8.txt
http://www.geocities.com/toxi/pics4total/mbwr-challenge-9.txt
I'm not sure I'll continue if it's only the two of us ;)
Anyway, from now on only time updates...no more screenshots, they're driving me mad :D
TeeKay
11-17-2003, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by DC_Tox
Anyway, from now on only time updates...no more screenshots, they're driving me mad :D
I agree with you, always making the screenshots is very annoying &(.
Other question: Is it necessary to save the %-values in the db? Or would it be enough to save the time and the equivalent time (besides name, track....)
DC_Tox
11-17-2003, 03:58 AM
Originally posted by TeeKay
Other question: Is it necessary to save the %-values in the db? Or would it be enough to save the time and the equivalent time (besides name, track....)
The best option should be to save the time and the sum of all %-values. The Equivalent time should be calculated automatically as:
Time*600/(sum of %)
In fact, calculation of equivalent time is the only annoying thing in the whole process, the rest is easy ;)
Do you plan to require screenshots or just values? If you require screenshots I would insert both of them as separate files, if possible, because it seems that only I and Fez have been patient enough to edit the pictures into one single screenshot :D
TeeKay
11-17-2003, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by DC_Tox
The best option should be to save the time and the sum of all %-values. The Equivalent time should be calculated automatically as:
Time*600/(sum of %)
Then I can also directly save the equivalent time, meaning to calculate it, before saving in the db.
Originally posted by DC_Tox
In fact, calculation of equivalent time is the only annoying thing in the whole process, the rest is easy ;)
Hehe, there are really more difficult formels, then that one ^_^. We don't have to integrate any functions, to see results in that case ;).
Originally posted by DC_Tox
Do you plan to require screenshots or just values? If you require screenshots I would insert both of them as separate files, if possible, because it seems that only I and Fez have been patient enough to edit the pictures into one single screenshot :D
Would it make sense, to require them?? The screenshots of those %-values don't show, what race they are belonging to.... :(
And the other screenshots with the times could also be made after any race....
So I think we can leave them out, do you agree?
DC_Tox
11-17-2003, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by TeeKay
So I think we can leave them out, do you agree?
Yes :)
TeeKay
11-21-2003, 02:37 PM
I think the value "Experience" should not have an influence on the "Equivalent Time"... Do you agree?
(hehe, another "Do you agree"-question ^_^)
BTW: I'm still implementing the new championship-system... :)
TeeKay
11-21-2003, 02:46 PM
Another Question: Should we be able to check, what particular %-values every competitor had in the championships? Or only the sum?
DC_Tox
11-21-2003, 03:19 PM
You're right Tobias, probably the experience can be left out, since it doesn't seem to be much related to how you drive. In this way the equivalent time could be equal to the real time for "perfectly clean" races where all the rest is at 100%
Showing the individual % values is IMHO useful to know the driving style used in the submitted race results, to check the difference with your own style / points.
TeeKay
11-22-2003, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by DC_Tox
Showing the individual % values is IMHO useful to know the driving style used in the submitted race results, to check the difference with your own style / points.
Ok, although the tables will be very huge, I'll add attributes for the individual values.
The main work for implementing the tables are the filter functions and the different stats... but I think the system will be ready in a few days.
TeeKay
12-06-2003, 04:09 AM
Ok, Again I've come more far with developing the new hotlap system with championship mode. It isn't online yet.
Again I have several questions / ideas...
I've added an option to the championship-form. If one also add's a screenshot to a race-entry of a championship, then this particular time will be also saved in the normal hotlap-database.
But of course that would be the normal time (not the one calculated with driving values).
That requires that you always reset the track-records before any race... but Synetic made this action much easier, cause alt+tab now works with the latest patch...
I've also added the option 'ABS ON/OFF' to the normal hotlap-tables... so people like FEZ can also drive with ABS ;). Besides that ABS-option, there's now also the particular filter.... to show "only abs-entries" and the ones driven without abs.
But I think for championships, we should say, that the current championship is either with or without abs.... we could make this option in championships rotational... so every second championship would be with abs...
Another point, that isn't clear: Who would define the track/car list of a current championship?
Your opions, ideas, criticism?
FeZ
12-06-2003, 06:15 AM
Fantastic news Tobias -^
I was wondering if ABS on/off is such a big deal ? ABS on makes it easier to drive an "unknown" track but with practice on that track ABS off makes your times faster.
I just find ABS on more convenient as I dont like to drive the same combo over and over again.
About the picking of a car/track combo, we had some little tool for NFS Porsche that would come up with a random generated combo. I have to see if I can adapt that for WR.
Has anybody else seen that with the new patch 1.44 the ABS is gone on the Oldies no matter if its on or off in the options. I havent played much lately but when I did a run in the Gullwing yesterday the wheels locked very easy and it went straight into the corner. I already asked on the synetic forum but did not get an answer. Maybe I am just imagining things, so maybe some of you could try that ?
Also on your Highscore List you seem to have forgotten the 300 SL Gullwing and the 300 SL Roadster, and there are also no Testtrack circuits to select.
Otherwise I cannot wait to see your new layout page going online -^ -^ -^
TeeKay
12-06-2003, 06:34 AM
Originally posted by FeZ
About the picking of a car/track combo, we had some little tool for NFS Porsche that would come up with a random generated combo. I have to see if I can adapt that for WR.
Mmmm... random generation - that's a good Idea Frank! I could build a random championship-generator with php.... that would be the most-user-friendly way. With an external Tool we would have to generate the values and then add them manually to the db...
OK - Then let's make it random :D
Originally posted by FeZ
Also on your Highscore List you seem to have forgotten the 300 SL Gullwing and the 300 SL Roadster, and there are also no Testtrack circuits to select.
Yes, there are some values missing....
In the new Hot Lap System I'll also add the Test Cars like A 230 K, CLK GTR Test car, etc. Because, since DC-Tox made the all-profile ready, we can use all cars in WR.
TeeKay
12-07-2003, 10:11 AM
Well, I'm just planing the Random-Track-Car-Generator......
But again I need your assistance. There are several questions spinning around in my head:
Should the cars be selected one time out of one list? Or two times: The first time ==> random selection of car group (means, A Class, C Class, etc.) The second time ==> random selection of a car out of the selected group
Should there be "static rules" like: There must be one offroad track/car combo per championship
Should it be simple probability for the car selection? Or are there cars or groups of cars that you prefer? ;)
Perhaps I'll build the random function and additional a manual function - so we can also make championships like the ones in WR (for example one Championship only with testcenter tracks)
So long.... pls support me with ideas and criticism ;)
DC_Tox
12-07-2003, 12:55 PM
Ok, here is my humble opinion....don't make any random generator, but make a thread/poll to collect the favourite track/car combos.
One maximum for racer, 10 maximum for offline challenge. If in the thread more than 10 are suggested (I doubt it, though), we can make a second poll (a ballot) to discard similar combos selecting only one out of each "type".
After all, it's only until the MP patch arrives :D
TeeKay
12-07-2003, 01:34 PM
I think a random system would be interesting too... it would be less work, to start a championship... But we can also discuss about manual started championships in the forum, that will be integrated in the new site....